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Grade our basketball players, offensively and defensively

Devin: A-/B+
Crawford: B+/B
Collins: B-/C+
Crab: C+/ B-
Dinos: B-/C-
Mitch: B-/C-
Codi: C-/ B+
Doral: C-/ B+
Rondale: C+/C+
Greg Mc: C-/C-
 
off/def

Crawford - B+/B
Miller-McIntyre - C/B+
Wilbekin - C/C-
Hudson - B/B-
Watson - C-/B
McClinton - C/D
Thomas - A-/B+
Mitoglou - B+/D
Collins - B/C
Moore - C+/B-
 
Devin could definitely be a better free throw shooter but he also gets to the line more than almost everyone else in the country. He's taken 108 free throws and 132 field goals.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Devin could definitely be a better free throw shooter but he also gets to the line more than almost everyone else in the country. He's taken 108 free throws and 132 field goals.
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I don't think Devin will ever be a "good" free throw shooter. I think he works really hard on it, but I just don't think he's got the touch from the line. You can get better by practicing and at times this year he has been better, but being a really good free shooter also takes some natural ability to do it and I don't think he's got it. I know it's frustrating for him and all you can do is practice to try to get better, but it's always going to be an issue for him I think.
 
PhDeac said:
I wasn't talk about his shooting at all. He's a solid 8th man and capable of being the guy playing the 5th best on the roster in any given game.
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This is why I dislike grading our players and generally find it a pointless exercise. If someone wants to give Rondale a B+ because he went from transfer bait to possibly decent role player, I understand that. But if you just go on base stats that would make no sense.

Devin has been dominant at times and leads us in scoring. He's also struggling from the line. B+? A? A-? Nobody's grading on the same scale. The effort to reduce a discussion of statistics and performances to an overly simplistic, subjective letter system just seems pointless to me.
 
Then I wish you'd stop saying people are exaggerating about Dinos's bad defense and try to describe it with more than "it's not that bad" and "he had 10 boards last night" and try to actually objectively evaluate it.

Sure it's pointless, but I'd like to see how far off some posters are from others on their evaluations of our players.

I'm curious, for example, how people rate Crab's defense.
 
TownieDeac said:
Then I wish you'd stop saying people are exaggerating about Dinos's bad defense and try to describe it with more than "it's not that bad" and "he had 10 boards last night" and try to actually objectively evaluate it.

Sure it's pointless, but I'd like to see how far off some posters are from others on their evaluations of our players.

I'm curious, for example, how people rate Crab's defense.
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Solid B-/C range, IMO.
 
TownieDeac said:
Then I wish you'd stop saying people are exaggerating about Dinos's bad defense and try to describe it with more than "it's not that bad" and "he had 10 boards last night" and try to actually objectively evaluate it.

Sure it's pointless, but I'd like to see how far off some posters are from others on their evaluations of our players.

I'm curious, for example, how people rate Crab's defense.
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So instead of discussing an opinion with facts, stats, reasoning, and trends - you'd rather avoid all that and just assign arbitrary, subjective letters to everyone without putting anything in context. It's the exact opposite of what you claim to be want - objective evaluation.

Nothing could be further from "objective evaluation" than meaningless letter grades with zero parameters.
 
Fine.

ETA: Here's how it *could* have worked.

Two people have different defensive grades for a player. Let's say I give Dinos a D and you give him a C. That's a pretty good place to start putting things in context. Instead, we have even more vague comments like "these evaluations are getting absurd."

I listed a bunch of stuff I thought Dinos was really bad at. It relates to footwork and speed at the basic level. I would love to see you actually defend your stance that he's anything better than a below average defender, deserving of strong criticism.
 
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Dinos is good at shooting threes and rebounding.

Dinos has negative lateral foot speed and hedges way too hard/too high, and often times can't get back because of said lack of later foot speed. He is also very slow on defensive rotations, as well as "helping the helper".

He should definitely be on the court, but he is not good at defense...at all.
 
1834 said:
off/def

Crawford - B+/B
Miller-McIntyre - C/B+
Wilbekin - C/C-
Hudson - B/B-
Watson - C-/B
McClinton - C/D
Thomas - A-/B+
Mitoglou - B+/D
Collins - B/C
Moore - C+/B-
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Agree with this except CMM gets a D on offense and JC gets an A on offense. Hudson might be a B- or C+ on offense right now. And JC is should be a B on defense because of his ability to protect the rim.
 
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wfu22fan said:
Agree with this except CMM gets a D on offense and JC gets an A on offense. Hudson might be a B- or C+ on offense right now. And JC is should be a B on defense because of his ability to protect the rim.
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lmfao
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Rondale may be the best defender on the entire team.
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I watch almost every game as a big fan but admittedly do not have the trained eye for intangibles and even defensive ability (outside of obvious good or bad). Can someone who knows more explain why Rondale is a good defender or valuable given offensive limitations? Personally, I couldn't believe Watson was still in at the end of the game (because of past biases on here), but it seems everyone here has made a huge switch on him in one single game....
 
PhDeac said:
I wasn't talk about his shooting at all. He's a solid 8th man and capable of being the guy playing the 5th best on the roster in any given game.
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I merely offered up the shooting figures as the beginning of a conversation. Though you didn't talk about them, they still function in an argument against the members of this thread "eating crow."

Could you define what a solid eighth man brings to a basketball team? I'm a little confused. Specifically though, I'm interested in the strengths and weaknesses you see in Watson's game as an eighth man instead of just a duplication of your original statement.
 
What's the argument that Dinos isn't a bad defender? Did anyone try to make that argument or is that just a hypo? If someone tried to make it I'm glad I missed that until now. Is there an argument he isn't awful on D?
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
What's the argument that Dinos isn't a bad defender? Did anyone try to make that argument or is that just a hypo? If someone tried to make it I'm glad I missed that until now. Is there an argument he isn't awful on D?
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DC and others have danced around it but don't seem to be willing to make actual arguments. I'd love to see the KenPoms.
 
TenaciousKory said:
I merely offered up the shooting figures as the beginning of a conversation. Though you didn't talk about them, they still function in an argument against the members of this thread "eating crow."

Could you define what a solid eighth man brings to a basketball team? I'm a little confused. Specifically though, I'm interested in the strengths and weaknesses you see in Watson's game as an eighth man instead of just a duplication of your original statement.
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I'm not sure what else you want to know that I haven't already posted. You watch enough hoops to know what an eighth man does in a rotation.


TownieDeac said:
DC and others have danced around it but don't seem to be willing to make actual arguments. I'd love to see the KenPoms.
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Examples? I haven't seen anybody say that. I have seen people say his defense didn't cost us the game last night.
 
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I think you have to look at stats(quantity) and the quality also. 12 points in garbage time is not the same as a clutch basket nor is chucking up a missed three early in the clock as bad in garbage time either. How do you measure not boxing out your man on a particular possession. For example, I give Rondale a solid B. He is playing within himself and not making many mistakes. Conversely his conservatism doesn't make him much of a threat either. I m measuring him against what I perceived his potential was at the beginning of the season. I also grade much more harshly for mental mistakes vs physical ones.
 
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