grayson Allan winning shot against UVA should not have counted

[sailordeac]

For that matter, why have refs at all? If they don't call obvious fouls in the last minute because "the players should decide the game" then why don't the players decide the game for the rest of the time?

Don't be silly. We need refs to help Duke win the close games. Unlike the other aspects of their job, they do this really well.

 

[bobknightfan]

He actually traveled twice in one move

This. He traveled even before his last foot had come down.

Constant traveling & carrying the ball....among other things.... have made a damned farce of the game of basketball today.


ETA: And this doesn't just happen at Duke. It happens in every game....everywhere. Players driving to the basket travel with the ball about 90% of the time....and it is never called anymore.

 

[TheReff]

For that matter, why have refs at all? If they don't call obvious fouls in the last minute because "the players should decide the game" then why don't the players decide the game for the rest of the time?

Lilburn, if the officials actually called the game by the letter of the law and did exactly what the rulebook said to call, there wouldn't be anybody left to play the game by the end of the first half. Everybody would foul out. There would be 100 more whistles for traveling, palming, free throw lane, free throw disconcertion, 5 second count, illegal dribble, fisting & kicking, numerous 3 second counts and whatever else you want to throw into a game. We have a really good game right now and they are trying to get the fouls cleaned up as has been seen with the foul points of emphasis. Until the players learn to move with their feet and play defense that way and not with their hands & body, fouls will continue to be called, like in our game. That is a directive from the NCAA.

 

[deaconson]

so its a directive from the ncaa to call fouls to clean up the game but the onsite refs don't call fouls because it will slow down the game and there will be no one left but the players aren't learning to play defense with their feet because coaches don't need to teach that because refs aren't calling that because... us... it's an ncaa directive?

whew, now that i have that straight...

it was a clear elbow/push off on the shot. it was obvious real time. it was also obvious allen does it every drive down and he gets the call nearly every time. it's the ol' "can't call every foul so just don't call them on dook." it was also obvious he traveled. if a ref was not in position to see how obvious it was then that's another problem.

 

[LilburnDeac]

Lilburn, if the officials actually called the game by the letter of the law and did exactly what the rulebook said to call, there wouldn't be anybody left to play the game by the end of the first half. Everybody would foul out. There would be 100 more whistles for traveling, palming, free throw lane, free throw disconcertion, 5 second count, illegal dribble, fisting & kicking, numerous 3 second counts and whatever else you want to throw into a game. We have a really good game right now and they are trying to get the fouls cleaned up as has been seen with the foul points of emphasis. Until the players learn to move with their feet and play defense that way and not with their hands & body, fouls will continue to be called, like in our game. That is a directive from the NCAA.

So refs call what they choose? So does that not lead to them favoring one team over another?

 

[RChildress107]

This. He traveled even before his last foot had come down.

Constant traveling & carrying the ball....among other things.... have made a damned farce of the game of basketball today.


ETA: And this doesn't just happen at Duke. It happens in every game....everywhere. Players driving to the basket travel with the ball about 90% of the time....and it is never called anymore.

No he didn't. It just looked awkward.

You don't know what a travel is.

 

[bobknightfan]

No he didn't. It just looked awkward.

You don't know what a travel is.

Once you stop the dribble you can only have one more foot come down on the floor...not two full steps. You have to do something with the ball (pass or shoot) before that 2nd foot touches the floor again. Allan stopped his dribble, then took two full steps. The last foot that came down would have been a 3rd step. He had already traveled when the 2nd full step came down after picking up his dribble.

 

[RChildress107]

Once you stop the dribble you can only have one more foot come down on the floor...not two full steps. You have to do something with the ball (pass or shoot) before that 2nd foot touches the floor again. Allan stopped his dribble, then took two full steps. The last foot that came down would have been a 3rd step. He had already traveled when the 2nd full step came down after picking up his dribble.

Yeah that's not a travel. First foot down after stopping your dribble is the pivot foot, if that foot leaves the floor it can't come down again. What you do with your second foot is your business.

Allen established his left foot as his pivot, and then jumped off his right. As long as he shoots before either foot comes back down he's good.

 

[bobknightfan]

Yeah that's not a travel. First foot down after stopping your dribble is the pivot foot, if that foot leaves the floor it can't come down again. What you do with your second foot is your business.

Allen established his left foot as his pivot, and then jumped off his right. As long as he shoots before either foot comes back down he's good.

You need to look at the video again.

Pause the video at exactly the 28 second mark. Allen has stopped his dribble. Both feet are on the floor & his body is leaning to the right. After that point both feet are lifted and come down on the floor again...then he first foot comes down to the floor a 2nd time after stopping his dribble. That is the one being contested....but he has already traveled when both of his feet leave the floor & come down again after the has stopped his dribble. (Also, he is carrying the ball as he stops his dribble.....but this is just SOP in basketball today. The NBA has protected the procedure so that they can get up to 4 steps at the end of a dribble.)

 

[wakephan09]

Constant traveling & carrying the ball....among other things.... have made a damned farce of the game of basketball today.

ETA: And this doesn't just happen at Duke. It happens in every game....everywhere. Players driving to the basket travel with the ball about 90% of the time....and it is never called anymore.

But wait, when people complain about exactly these things during games they are whiners?

 

[ReplacementDeac]

But wait, when people complain about exactly these things during games they are whiners?

you're entering a world of pain

 

[bobknightfan]

But wait, when people complain about exactly these things during games they are whiners?

When people think that these things are somehow happening only to their team & that their team doesn't benefit as much as it is hurt by missed calls, they are.

And The Reff (once again) explained the situation perfectly. The game has reached the point, after years & years & years of ignoring the rules, that if they tried to call even 10% of the constant rules violations the games would never end. The problem with many posters on these boards is that you are so one-sided in the way you view the officiating. You are constantly looking for bad calls against WF.....but you cast a blind eye to all the bad calls against its opponents. That's what gets old. The referees don't give a flying fuck about whether Wake Forest wins or loses. Some of you seem to think that for some reason the referees are prejudiced against Wake Forest. That is what is so ridiculous. WF is not losing games because of the referees. It is losing games because the team sucks, the fan base sucks, and the coaching sucks most of all.

 

[wakephan09]

The problem with many posters on these boards is that you are so one-sided in the way you view the officiating. You are constantly looking for bad calls against WF.....but you cast a blind eye to all the bad calls against its opponents.

I mean, this is kind of what all fans of all teams in all sports do. It is also kind of what you do when you talk about the issues most important to you (we all know what those are). It's confirmation bias at its most explicit.

 

[Deaconblue]

Wake fans are probably more sensitive than most because of some of the bizarre calls refs have made against Wake. "scoreboard" anyone?

 

[wakephan09]

Wake fans are probably more sensitive than most because of some of the bizarre calls refs have made against Wake. "scoreboard" anyone?

I think I remember BKF being unreasonably upset about that one too. He has quoted his diary entry from the game before, if I remember correctly.

 

[bobknightfan]

I think I remember BKF being unreasonably upset about that one too. He has quoted his diary entry from the game before, if I remember correctly.

I was extremely upset. I left the coliseum and walked 13 miles to my car during the next 3 hours while Duke was playing Clemson in the 2nd game of the tournament. However, I've also said that in my 58 years of watching WF basketball, that is the only game where I thought that the officials deliberately caused WF to lose the game. That's one game in 58 years.

 

[Rafi]

I was extremely upset. I left the coliseum and walked 13 miles to my car during the next 3 hours while Duke was playing Clemson in the 2nd game of the tournament. However, I've also said that in my 58 years of watching WF basketball, that is the only game where I thought that the officials deliberately caused WF to lose the game. That's one game in 58 years.

Didn't you not watch Wake games for 20 years?

A few random thoughts about BKF:

1. You really, really missed out by not watching Wake in the 90s. You missed 4 years of one of the top 10 basketball players of all time. Not only that, but Duncan is known as the Big Fundamental because he's so good at the basics of basketball, the stuff you seem to love. Man, you really miscalculated on that one.

2. You are really missing out by not watching the NBA right now, because Steph Curry is probably the purest shooter of all time. If you thought Charlie Davis was good, you should see Steph.

3. You were so enraged with reffing that you walked 13 miles to your car, yet you get upset when people just vent on a message board regarding reffing. No one here is doing a 13 mile anger walk, just a little venting. By the way, people on every sports message board everywhere in the world complain about reffing. It's a thing, and it's absolutely universal.

 

[Deaconblue]

Many times it is not the calls the refs make. It is the calls they do not make. Krinkle head used to brag that once he had four fouls he was bullet proof - he would never have the fifth foul called on him.

This, like the issue in the OP is why people get cynical about refs. It's usually not about what they call. It's what others see that they don't call that is a large source of angst.

 

[mebanedeac]

If Allen's blatant no call was an isolated incident there would not be so much protest. There is a long established pattern at Cameron.

 

[bobknightfan]

3. You were so enraged with reffing that you walked 13 miles to your car, yet you get upset when people just vent on a message board regarding reffing. No one here is doing a 13 mile anger walk, just a little venting. By the way, people on every sports message board everywhere in the world complain about reffing. It's a thing, and it's absolutely universal.

This is apples to oranges. I got very upset over a call (actually it was 2 calls....everyone remembers the scoreboard call, but nobody talks about the technical at the end of overtime) in one game over a 58-year period. Posters here get upset over dozens of calls in every single game.