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Hang it! (Alondes Williams ACC POY, 1st Team All-ACC)

donaldross said:
This is exactly the logic that produced our problem in the rafters. We retired folks for wrong reasons. Prosser died. So hang it. Oops Odom did more. Now have to hang his. But wait what about Tacy and Bones?

Retire Bogues. That era deserves some love. Oops he isn’t the best 14.

When you lower the bar as we did 5-6 times, you create even more unfairness. Which now leads us to this. A Juco transfer who has led us to 5th and a potential ACC player of the year award in a weak year with no candidates.

The easy answer here, for those who like participation trophies, is to put all kinds of honors in the rafters. But there are a clear 5 WF jerseys who should be retired: Hemric, Chappell, Davis, Childress, & Duncan.
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I'm OK with this stance. The genie is out of the bottle, though. An ACC POY award would certainly put Williams in a rare WF fraternity. You can't deny that. All the rest are HOF'ers.

There is zero reason to diminish what Alondes has done. There are plenty of quality candidates. Banchero, Bacot, Williams, Aluma are all high-quality players. It is not the '80s and '90s where you got four years from professionals. That doesn't mean there is poor quality on the floor. You play who you play, and Williams has been the best.
 
To be fair (though not to DR, he's the epitome of douchey troll), I know people who grew up Dook fans, went to the Joel in Duke garments while growing up, wanted to go to Duke, didn't get in, went to Wake instead and became life-long Wake fans and bleed Old Gold and Black and regret their entire fandom before Wake. You can't always hold someone's prior life against them when compared to their post-Wake life. How many of our greatest athletes grew up fans of other teams? I'm sure a large number did.

That said....if ManMan wins POY, it should be retired. I wish we could start honoring jerseys instead, but if that's not an option, then hang it.

Oh and fuck DR and his entire condescending existence.
 
In other words....

PhDeac said:
I was going to wait to have this discussion, but let's do it now. #31 Alondes Williams belongs in the rafters. I don't care if Buddy Boeheim drops 50 to lead the league in scoring. I don't care if Bacot gets 50 and 40 on Saturday and does pushups on Coach K's corpse and gets named POY. I don't care if Alondes Williams gets the recognition and accolades he's due and honestly, it won't matter what happens in the post-season.

Hang it.

Forbes said it best in the post-game. "When we look back at this years from now, he's going to be the guy who changed the whole thing."

That right there is worth making sure no one else wears #31 for Wake Forest ever again. And that #31 should be a sign to everyone can play basketball and everyone who can't, that it doesn't matter how you started. It doesn't matter where you came from. If you want to put in the work, you can come to Wake Forest and do something special and we'll appreciate you.
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bingpot-andy-samberg.gif
 
When he graduated Howard was one of only 2 or three players in the history of the ACC to tally >1500 pts, >500rebounds, >200 assists and > 200 steals, or something like that. He was an amazing player and worthy of special recognition at Wake.
 
the big disconnect here is this idea that somehow we can have the same standards as UNC and Duke and Kentucky. We can't. If you only retire jerseys of people who win national championships or national player of the year honors, we are probably never hanging another jersey. (I know this is overly realistic, but we all know it.)

A better (if still probably stretch) comparison would be Georgia Tech - another program that has never won a national championship, only occasionally wins the ACC, but still has had some really good players. I say they're a stretch because they have made 2 final fours in the last 40 years to our zero. Here's who they have retired:

Matt Harpring (15), Tom Hammonds (20), Roger Kaiser (21), John Salley (22), Mark Price (25) and Rich Yunkus (40)

We should be selective, but arguing that an ACC POY and first guy to accomplish what he has doesn't deserve to have his jersey in the rafters simply because he hasn't sustained his level of production for three years is fucking snobbish.
 
Howard was a consensus first team All-American and ACC POY, graduated, and played 4 years. And yet some are arguing even that isn't good enough. Lol. Ok.
 
birdman said:
When he graduated Howard was one of only 2 or three players in the history of the ACC to tally >1500 pts, >500rebounds, >200 assists and > 200 steals, or something like that. He was an amazing player and worthy of special recognition at Wake.
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I don't see a world where Howard's jersey shouldn't of been retired. Fucking loved watching him play.

99% of this thread is on board, but DR lives in banana land.
 
Ball State Deac said:
I’ve never seen this posed to him but I’ll be happy to ask him and report back.
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you should read one of the many threads that he derails. it comes up literally every time, and he never answers.

DR derails threads as effectively as RJ
 
maybe we can honor jerseys too, starting with Alondes
 
DeacDiggler said:
the big disconnect here is this idea that somehow we can have the same standards as UNC and Duke and Kentucky. We can't. If you only retire jerseys of people who win national championships or national player of the year honors, we are probably never hanging another jersey. (I know this is overly realistic, but we all know it.)

A better (if still probably stretch) comparison would be Georgia Tech - another program that has never won a national championship, only occasionally wins the ACC, but still has had some really good players. I say they're a stretch because they have made 2 final fours in the last 40 years to our zero. Here's who they have retired:

Matt Harpring (15), Tom Hammonds (20), Roger Kaiser (21), John Salley (22), Mark Price (25) and Rich Yunkus (40)

We should be selective, but arguing that an ACC POY and first guy to accomplish what he has doesn't deserve to have his jersey in the rafters simply because he hasn't sustained his level of production for three years is fucking snobbish.
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At the same time, that means GA Tech hasn't retired Kenny Anderson, Stephon Marbury, Travis Best, Dennis Scott, Brian Oliver, any of the Barry's, James Forrest, or Chris Bosh. There might be some more great Tech players I'm forgetting, but if the idea is that lesser programs can understandably retire non-epic talent I'm not sure Tech is the best example.

I'm torn on Manman. I hope he's the left bookend on a long Forbes era of incredible success at Wake. He's been incredible this year, and Forbes is absolutely correct that if we do become a consistently top tier program he'll be remembered as the guy that jumpstarted it. But the ACC sucks, like historically. And we're 5th, not 1st. And yes it's a new era of guys leaving early but still, a one year player should have a higher bar. Which maybe he's going to reach when we either win the ACC tournament or make the Final Four.

Also it's very on-brand for dr to argue a reasonable point (don't retire Manman's number, build a new smaller arena) through an absurdly wrong Duke-colored lens.
 
buckets said:
maybe we can honor jerseys too, starting with Alondes
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New AD, new policy. I could see that. Alondes could be part of an inaugural class of honorees with Frank Johnson and Justin Gray.
 
DCDeac said:
At the same time, that means GA Tech hasn't retired Kenny Anderson, Stephon Marbury, Travis Best, Dennis Scott, Brian Oliver, any of the Barry's, James Forrest, or Chris Bosh. There might be some more great Tech players I'm forgetting, but if the idea is that lesser programs can understandably retire non-epic talent I'm not sure Tech is the best example.

I'm torn on Manman. I hope he's the left bookend on a long Forbes era of incredible success at Wake. He's been incredible this year, and Forbes is absolutely correct that if we do become a consistently top tier program he'll be remembered as the guy that jumpstarted it. But the ACC sucks, like historically. And we're 5th, not 1st. And yes it's a new era of guys leaving early but still, a one year player should have a higher bar. Which maybe he's going to reach when we either win the ACC tournament or make the Final Four.

Also it's very on-brand for dr to argue a reasonable point (don't retire Manman's number, build a new smaller arena) through an absurdly wrong Duke-colored lens.
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Kenny Anderson and Dennis Scott are two of the best to ever play in the ACC. Gotta be top 50 players.
 
PhDeac said:
New AD, new policy. I could see that. Alondes could be part of an inaugural class of honorees with Frank Johnson and Justin Gray.
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I agree with honoring about 10 players whose jerseys aren’t hanging. Johnson, Gray, Schellenberg, Collins, Chris King, Billy Packer, Dave Budd, Delaney Rudd, CJ Harris, and Eric Williams seem worthy.
 
Did we ever find out who the best player was on CP3’s teams?
 
DR stands for derail. Trolling as an artform.

The season isn't over. Forbes originally defined 20 wins as a good season, 25 wins as a great season and 30 wins as a special season. He has remarked that this season is special because this team as restored respect to the basketball program. I agree.

There is nothing preventing this team from meeting his original definition of respect. Accomplish that and there will be no opposition to putting Manman's jersey in the rafters.
 
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