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HS girl challenges Bachmann to debate about Constitution

I'm completely against a testing requirement for voting, as all citizens are entitled to that right, but lets not pretend that we haven't taken that right away from felons. It could probably be done since we piss all over the constitution these days anyways.
 
oh, the irony

What would the questions be and who would decide what questions to ask?

Is a stupid American not an American worthy of the right to vote under the constitution?

Where in the Constitution does it distinguish between idiot Americans and smart Americans?

there are lots of smart Americans who I think vote for shitty candidates. Roughly 40%. :)

Testing for a constitutional right? Jiminy Christmas, that is the most unconstitutional thing I have ever read. Did you hear Boortz rant about this? because that dumbass is always saying this....

It is definitely unconstitutional. Of course, so was the sell of alcohol at one point. Our political system is broken, in large part due to an uninformed and unintelligent electorate that is subject to manipulation and pandering. It happens in nearly all races and all politicians are guilty of preying on the misinformed.

I happen to think that you should not vote if you are not informed as to any of the issues. Unfortunately, grossly uninformed people vote all the time, and are encouraged to do so by nearly all politicians. It seems to me that in this technological age we can come up with a fair test that does not discriminate on race, gender or anything else that would be inherently unfair and yet would still put some controls on the political system requiring increased credibility by both the politicians and the electorate.
 
It is definitely unconstitutional. Of course, so was the sell of alcohol at one point. Our political system is broken, in large part due to an uninformed and unintelligent electorate that is subject to manipulation and pandering. It happens in nearly all races and all politicians are guilty of preying on the misinformed.

I happen to think that you should not vote if you are not informed as to any of the issues. Unfortunately, grossly uninformed people vote all the time, and are encouraged to do so by nearly all politicians. It seems to me that in this technological age we can come up with a fair test that does not discriminate on race, gender or anything else that would be inherently unfair and yet would still put some controls on the political system requiring increased credibility by both the politicians and the electorate.

broken compared to what? At what point in American history was the political system not "broken."

when was this glorious time when American voters were all informed on the issues? when it was just land-owning white males?
 
broken compared to what? At what point in American history was the political system not "broken."

when was this glorious time when American voters were all informed on the issues? when it was just land-owning white males?

There was a Tuesday in 1975.
 
broken compared to what? At what point in American history was the political system not "broken."

when was this glorious time when American voters were all informed on the issues? when it was just land-owning white males?

Hard to argue that that electorate was not better informed on the issues than the present day voters.

I think the television age started the downfall, and it has gotten worse with the 24-hours news cycle and the Internet, both of which serve to "inform" voters on the issues. As has been discussed on other threads, some of the most important things for Presidential candidacy are looks, the sound of your voice, and sound bites from statements in years past. That is a shame. But, the current system fuels itself - uninformed electorate is manipulated by shrewd career politicians. That has always been the case to a certain extent, but it has gotten out of control (in my opinion).

Obviously, testing before voting will not happen. That doesn't mean it shouldn't.
 
Hard to argue that that electorate was not better informed on the issues than the present day voters.

I think the television age started the downfall, and it has gotten worse with the 24-hours news cycle and the Internet, both of which serve to "inform" voters on the issues. As has been discussed on other threads, some of the most important things for Presidential candidacy are looks, the sound of your voice, and sound bites from statements in years past. That is a shame. But, the current system fuels itself - uninformed electorate is manipulated by shrewd career politicians. That has always been the case to a certain extent, but it has gotten out of control (in my opinion).

Obviously, testing before voting will not happen. That doesn't mean it shouldn't.

it won't and it shouldn't. We are a country of liberty. You have the liberty to be a dumbass and vote in the United States. You can be a deaf, dumb, and blind person who dresses like a smurf and vote. The idea of testing before voting is preposterous.

As to your assessment of informed voters, our ability to communicate in the modern age is incredible. Do you really think voters sitting around the kitchen table in 1875 reading week old news in the newspaper were more informed than today's voters who can watch Congress vote in real time on CSpan? Where do you get these ideas? We are much better informed and more up-to-date on what is happening in government today than we ever have been.

The problem with that is that there is SO MUCH information that often the sexy, scandalous, and otherwise melodramatic stories rise to the top and get all of our attention. After all, we still only have 24 hours in a day so while the amount of consumable info has multiplied exponentially, the amount of time to consume it has remained constant. Hence, an electorate that has spent waaay too much time consuming trivial news and not enough on the 'boring' issues. That is not the fault of the voters or the politicians, but the free press and, well, capitalism. Ultimately they are just trying to sell ad space...
 
On the modern age, I would also posit that today's leaders have a much more challenging job than leaders of pre-24-hour -cable TV and pre-internet eras. An incredibly more challenging job. Events happening around the world have immediate effects and ripples over the whole globe - as opposed to the slower, plodding event development of the early 20th century and before.
 
I agree with some of what you are saying - politicians have a more difficult job if they actually look to accomplish much of anything. However, you refer to them as "leaders." I don't think that the majority of our politicians aspire to lead. I think they aspire to be elected and then re-elected. In order to do so, they appeal to the lowest common denominator of sound bites and catch phrases, which, in turn, are aimed not at the select few who watch Congress on CSPAN, but rather the masses who will elect (or re-elect) them.

I am surprised that you appear to think that the masses are well informed these days as to the major political issues. I would agree that the voter who wishes to learn about his/her candidates and their positions on certain topics has the ability to do so with access to the Internet. I don't think most do. Some don't even have access to the Internet or CSpan. Most who do certainly don't use it to be brought up to speed on the major political issues of the day. By way of example - look at the number of posts on this board compared to the Pit or the Sports Board.

In my opinion, too many cast votes with no information about what or who they are voting for, other than what they have been told by Rush, Hannity, Olbermann or some other talking head, or, much worse, what they have been told by their friends or co-workers, or, much, much, worse, just by showing up and taking a shot in the dark.

Similarly, if people cannot read, or cannot pass a basic civics test, or cannot demonstrate any ability whatsoever to begin to comprehend simple political concepts, in my opinion, that person is not fit to vote. Undoubtedly, that is not the law here, and when we did have voting restrictions they were abused, largely to the detriment of minorities. That would be a major concern should voter-competency tests be re-instituted in any way. I just happen to think that the risk of those injustices is a better option than the obvious injustices that occur with the current system of allowing any non-felon to vote.
 
I agree with some of what you are saying - politicians have a more difficult job if they actually look to accomplish much of anything. However, you refer to them as "leaders." I don't think that the majority of our politicians aspire to lead. I think they aspire to be elected and then re-elected. In order to do so, they appeal to the lowest common denominator of sound bites and catch phrases, which, in turn, are aimed not at the select few who watch Congress on CSPAN, but rather the masses who will elect (or re-elect) them.

I am surprised that you appear to think that the masses are well informed these days as to the major political issues. I would agree that the voter who wishes to learn about his/her candidates and their positions on certain topics has the ability to do so with access to the Internet. I don't think most do. Some don't even have access to the Internet or CSpan. Most who do certainly don't use it to be brought up to speed on the major political issues of the day. By way of example - look at the number of posts on this board compared to the Pit or the Sports Board.

In my opinion, too many cast votes with no information about what or who they are voting for, other than what they have been told by Rush, Hannity, Olbermann or some other talking head, or, much worse, what they have been told by their friends or co-workers, or, much, much, worse, just by showing up and taking a shot in the dark.

Similarly, if people cannot read, or cannot pass a basic civics test, or cannot demonstrate any ability whatsoever to begin to comprehend simple political concepts, in my opinion, that person is not fit to vote.
Undoubtedly, that is not the law here, and when we did have voting restrictions they were abused, largely to the detriment of minorities. That would be a major concern should voter-competency tests be re-instituted in any way. I just happen to think that the risk of those injustices is a better option than the obvious injustices that occur with the current system of allowing any non-felon to vote.


you realize the bolded section above describes the American public of the first 200 years of the country, all of whom SHOULD have had the right to vote (but of course blacks didn't until 1870 and women in 1920).

it is quite a leap, IMO, to claim that the voters then didn't rely on what their family, friends, neighbors, pastors, or some snakeoil salesmen full of doomsday scenarios told them when they walked into the voting booth. Or on the sound or nationality of the names on the ballot, or what church the candidate attended or the color of their hair, for that matter.

I understand your frustration with the system today, I am not discounting your feelings. I just feel that it has been worse in terms of informed voters. Everyone pines for the "good old days" of America, and I think that is largely mythical and not really based in historical fact.
 
Fair enough - maybe it wasn't better before and maybe the electorate has always been a bunch of sheeplike idiots - I disagree that it was worse before, but regardless, that doesn't mean it can't be made better now, nor does it mean that testing now would not make it better now. That is the real debate. Sure, the notion of testing runs contrary to the Constitution and would require an amendment. But, that is why there is an amendment process.

I wish that people wanted to become more informed and knowledgeable. Put a test in front of them, and I believe that a good percentage of people who currently vote will still vote, and it may even bring some disenchanted voter-eligible non-voters back into the fold. But, keep it the way it is, and you are relying on people to take the initiative to become informed prior to voting, when evidence clearly suggests that they do not do that now (and you seem to claim they have never done so).
 
^I wish they would become more informed too, and more importantly more informed on the real issues. I'm sure most everyone knows who Monica Lewinsky is, but very few understand the debt ceiling.

But like I said, there are plenty of nitwits who can pass all kinds of tests. I bet a lot of those "May 21st is Armageddon" morons could pass the test, and I'd be fine if none of them ever voted. Or used up any more of the available oxygen, really. Not to mention the birthers or the 9-11 conspiracy theorists.

I'm afraid we are stuck with shitheads and dumbfucks forever, my friend. Might as well just take a bong hit, throw on some Allman Brothers, and ride it out.
 
The "real issues" are whatever is important to the "uninformed" electorate.
 
Just how are we supposed to decide how "informed" someone is?

Barack Obama and Ron Paul both have read the Constitution, but they, shall we say, reach very different conclusions about what the federal government can do.

What is the extent of the Commerce Clause and the power of the president to send troops into harm's way without the approval of Congress? These are not questions you can put on a test and get true/false answers.
 
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