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I can't believe how bad this team has turned

Can talk about scheme/coaching all you want, but the reason we have struggled is that 2 key players have underperformed. Going into season, I think most (me included) thought that CMM, Thomas, and Hudson would be are "star" players. Thomas has certainly lived up to expectations. Most thought CMM would play like an experienced physical senior---finishing around the rim, limiting turnovers, and basically just being rock solid. Most thought Hudson would take a huge step forward. This was not unrealistic. He had a year to put on strength. He was labeled as a "gifted" offensive player by Childress and Manning singled him out as one would make the biggest leap. He has length and athleticism to be solid on defense and ball skills to play 1-3.

Crawford, Collins, Moore, and Dinos have basically been what we expected. I'd throw Wilbeken in this group---based on Odom's comments that he was expected to be a 15min/game reserve during his career rather than a starter (although his shooting has not been great). Certainly can't blame Rondale.

CMM and Hudson have massively underperformed to expectations. Its crazy how well we did in nonconf without them but the ACC is a grind and they are the weak link relative to what they should be contributing to this roster.
 
Shake said:
Can someone explain how Buzz is getting it done in year 2? Does he have better talent than us?
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He is 12-7 and beat Wake at home by a missed free throw. It is a bit of a stretch to anoint VT hoops as getting it done. They are currently projected at 16-15 (8-10)... so not sure why we should envy Buzz at this point in time.
 
pdx, I think you greatly overrated CMM and Hudson.
 
wfupdx said:
Can talk about scheme/coaching all you want, but the reason we have struggled is that 2 key players have underperformed. Going into season, I think most (me included) thought that CMM, Thomas, and Hudson would be are "star" players. Thomas has certainly lived up to expectations. Most thought CMM would play like an experienced physical senior---finishing around the rim, limiting turnovers, and basically just being rock solid. Most thought Hudson would take a huge step forward. This was not unrealistic. He had a year to put on strength. He was labeled as a "gifted" offensive player by Childress and Manning singled him out as one would make the biggest leap. He has length and athleticism to be solid on defense and ball skills to play 1-3.

Crawford, Collins, Moore, and Dinos have basically been what we expected. I'd throw Wilbeken in this group---based on Odom's comments that he was expected to be a 15min/game reserve during his career rather than a starter (although his shooting has not been great). Certainly can't blame Rondale.

CMM and Hudson have massively underperformed to expectations. Its crazy how well we did in nonconf without them but the ACC is a grind and they are the weak link relative to what they should be contributing to this roster.
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This is pretty spot on.
 
MichDeac25 said:
No he didn't. Manning said coming into the season that Hudson would be the player everyone was talking about at the end of the season as to how they had improved.
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[Redacted] said the same kind of stuff. Doesn't make it true.
 
Exactly. Gotta sell them season tickets.
 
MichDeac25 said:
Both Odom and Bill Walton called Hudson our most physically gifted and talented player. I'm sure Walton was just repeating what someone else told him, likely Odom. But he certainly said it and so did Odom.
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Dave Odom was a coaching legend, but he's kind of a broadcasting donk. I'm sure they're both reading from the SID's notes regardless.
 
Hudson not only hasn't progressed, he has regressed. Most of us were hoping he'd up his 3 point percentage by, let's say, 5%. Instead, he has lowered it by 8% (which if he can even that back out, would mean we'd be in much better shape going forward...alas, we'll see). You would think that one more year would lead to better decision making, but he's still jacking up random 3's and is turning the ball over half again as much. I'm not saying I expected him to be a world beater this year, but at this point, I'd easily settle for last year's Hudson.

With that said, to me, his shot really does look on line. So hopefully it's just a slump and they'll start dropping.
 
PhDeac said:
Exactly. Gotta sell them season tickets.
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That's crap. Manning would have no motivation to over-sell Hudson just to "sell tickets". Why would he talk up a player that he didn't feel deserved it and risk being proven foolish and a bad identifier of talent on his own team. He clearly said it because he believed it - Hudson must have been showing it in early practices. Manning also may have gotten too excited about Hudson suddenly growing a couple of inches.
I have been totally underwhelmed by Hudson and don't know why people keep talking like he has good handles - he seems to lose control every time he tries to make a move.
 
Listened to the VPI game on Va tech radio. Just watched it on my snow day.

Refs hurt us at va tech and we let it get to us. The VPI radio guys were in agreement on most calls.

Hudson was really bad. Shockingly bad. In every phase.

Our two Srs. have particular offensive skills that are aggressive. If the two shot even 70% together from the free throw line this team would be significantly better. The other team shots a 3, and our guys come down run a set, and get fouled and make one out of two. Getting free throw attempts for them is not a win on offense. It's a huge obstacle to winning.

We need to play ZONE. Protect the rim. We simply can't stop people from getting there. Guard the three and protect the rim.

We've got to go big. Dinos is actually getting tougher with his inside defense. Moore and Collins are very competitive at the rim. Devin doesn't need to be in there at risk. He can rebound without having to be in the post.

This team has some weapons, but our staff has got to deal with reality, make some changes, and try and make a run. This is not working. Hudson and Codi have to go from featured to secondary. That's a tough transition.
 
scooter84 said:
That's crap. Manning would have no motivation to over-sell Hudson just to "sell tickets". Why would he talk up a player that he didn't feel deserved it and risk being proven foolish and a bad identifier of talent on his own team. He clearly said it because he believed it - Hudson must have been showing it in early practices. Manning also may have gotten too excited about Hudson suddenly growing a couple of inches.
I have been totally underwhelmed by Hudson and don't know why people keep talking like he has good handles - he seems to lose control every time he tries to make a move.
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C'mon man. You follow sports. Coaches hype up their players before the season to get the fans excited. Coaches blame players during the season to deflect criticism.
 
PhDeac said:
C'mon man. You follow sports. Coaches hype up their players before the season to get the fans excited. Coaches blame players during the season to deflect criticism.
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Especially coaches that don't have a track record of success to fall back on.
 
Wake is catching 15 pts tomorrow in South Beach. Vegas is disrespecting Manning & the boys.
 
Hudson shot 32% from deep and 72% from the line last year for just under 8 points a game as a freshman. He played over 20 minutes in 18 games once we started our ACC schedule and hit at least 2 threes in 11 of those games. So far this year he has 11 games of 20+ minutes, and he's only hit more than 1 three in two of them. Drop his one decent game against Duke and he's averaging under 4 points and shooting 7% from deep. Seven freaking percent.

It's not crazy to have expected a 2 point increase in scoring just with his increased minutes, and you'd hope to see slight improvement in all his percentages after a year playing in college - maybe 35% and 75%. Instead he's in full-on meltdown mode. Scored 0 points total in the VATech loss. Almost cost us the NC State game. 0% from deep against Louisville.

Codi only works as a 2 when the 1 and 3 spots can shoot from outside. Now we have to bench Hudson, force Codi into the 3 spot, and to make matters worse Wilbekin has been inconsistent at best from deep (also has dropped in 3 point percentage and field goal percentage this year). When Codi gets a 2 guard on him and drives hard to the bucket, he can be unstoppable. With a 3 on him he's maybe leading the country in getting blocked. And his rebounds are down. And he struggles to defend taller players.

Manning gave McClinton tons of minutes at 3. Fail. Hudson got tons of minutes. Fail. Codi's getting tons of minutes there as a stop-gap. Fail. We're desperate enough to have gone to Rondale who, while playing better than anyone would expect - also Fail.

Meltdown at 3, Wilbekin regressing at 2. Reminds me of Justin Gray playing out of position at point. We're just out of players to try short of putting a freshman at 3 out of position.
 
On the bright side, Manning clearly knew the biggest problems were at SG and SF because that was the focus of his recruiting.
 
DCDeac said:
Hudson shot 32% from deep and 72% from the line last year for just under 8 points a game as a freshman. He played over 20 minutes in 18 games once we started our ACC schedule and hit at least 2 threes in 11 of those games. So far this year he has 11 games of 20+ minutes, and he's only hit more than 1 three in two of them. Drop his one decent game against Duke and he's averaging under 4 points and shooting 7% from deep. Seven freaking percent.

It's not crazy to have expected a 2 point increase in scoring just with his increased minutes, and you'd hope to see slight improvement in all his percentages after a year playing in college - maybe 35% and 75%. Instead he's in full-on meltdown mode. Scored 0 points total in the VATech loss. Almost cost us the NC State game. 0% from deep against Louisville.

Codi only works as a 2 when the 1 and 3 spots can shoot from outside. Now we have to bench Hudson, force Codi into the 3 spot, and to make matters worse Wilbekin has been inconsistent at best from deep (also has dropped in 3 point percentage and field goal percentage this year). When Codi gets a 2 guard on him and drives hard to the bucket, he can be unstoppable. With a 3 on him he's maybe leading the country in getting blocked. And his rebounds are down. And he struggles to defend taller players.

Manning gave McClinton tons of minutes at 3. Fail. Hudson got tons of minutes. Fail. Codi's getting tons of minutes there as a stop-gap. Fail. We're desperate enough to have gone to Rondale who, while playing better than anyone would expect - also Fail.

Meltdown at 3, Wilbekin regressing at 2. Reminds me of Justin Gray playing out of position at point. We're just out of players to try short of putting a freshman at 3 out of position.
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Hudson's collapse is bizzarre. Was he taking peds earlier and has now stopped? I am at a loss for any rational explanation.
 
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