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I'll just leave this here....

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Jhmd, would you say you know more about what's best for black people than they do?
 
BarcaDeac said:
Jhmd, would you say you know more about what's best for black people than they do?
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Just perusing this thread, but I always love this quote. It inevitably comes out in this discussion.
 
I was really hopeful when I started reading this thread title that you were leaving.
 
Since jhmd essentially posts the same thread over and over, can we just lock him in this one?
 
BarcaDeac said:
Jhmd, would you say you know more about what's best for black people than they do?
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This is a class issue, at least on the facts (granted, I can't speak for your emotions). Most of this country's poor are white.

What I do believe is that everyone is capable of finishing high school, regardless of their race or class. I refuse to share the prejudice that certain groups aren't capable. I steadfastly believe that they are.

Those of you who would like to approach these problems from the starting point that personal responsibility is somehow negotiable are going to get what you get with that approach. The only thing I ask is for you to please do me a favor and stop pretending that you care.
 
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You are arguing with yourself at this point. I'm done (hopefully, but jhmd is a damn good troll).
 
jhmd2000 said:
This is a class issue, at least on the facts (granted, I can't speak for your emotions). Most of this country's poor are white.

What I do believe is that everyone is capable of finishing high school, regardless of their race or class. I refuse to share the prejudice that certain groups aren't capable. I steadfastly believe that they are.

Those of you who would like to approach these problems from the starting point that personal responsibility is somehow negotiable are going to get what you get with that approach. The only thing I ask is for you to please do me a favor and stop pretending that you care.
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What are you even rambling about? High School graduation rates haven't plunged recently, in fact they have increased since 2000. The problem here is not so much teen pregnancy or high school graduation or single-parent homes. It is that your beloved free market is not producing the decent-wage jobs necessary to carry these individuals into the middle class. The steadfast opposition by people not unlike yourself to government spending on infrastructure projects and works projects or any projects outside military armaments compounds the problem. So then you and Paul Ryan ride in on your high horses and fire arrows of blame at the American kids who - as history has proven over and over - will succeed and excel if just given the opportunities.

Michelle Obama was addressing a gaggle of young people when she admonished them, attempting to light a fire under some of them. Paul Ryan was waxing political in the wonkosphere and touting actual legislation he wants to advance that would essentially fuck things up even more for these youths.
 
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ONW said:
You are arguing with yourself at this point. I'm done (hopefully, but jhmd is a damn good troll).
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Well, you finished first and I'm completely unsatisfied, but your reputation preceded you so at least I was prepared.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Most of this country's poor are white.
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What are we talking here, sheer number or percentage of "poor" people (when quantified with SES or wealth or income or whatever metric we want to use to discuss it)? While I'm sure the actual number of poor people in the country who are white is likely higher than any other group, I do not believe that the percentage of people who are poor within each racial breakdown is higher for white people than say, black people.

Also you are damn good at building up this strawman about everyone else failing to provide solutions when your sole solution remains "graduate high school" as if you've come up with some shocking revelation that nobody else would have ever discovered.

My solution for ending world hunger is to eat. WHY DON'T YOU GUYS PROVIDE SOLUTIONS LIKE I AM?
 
jhmd2000 said:
This is a class issue, at least on the facts (granted, I can't speak for your emotions). Most of this country's poor are white.

What I do believe is that everyone is capable of finishing high school, regardless of their race or class. I refuse to share the prejudice that certain groups aren't capable. I steadfastly believe that they are.

Those of you who would like to approach these problems from the starting point that personal responsibility is somehow negotiable are going to get what you get with that approach. The only thing I ask is for you to please do me a favor and stop pretending that you care.
Click to expand...

Choices aren't made in a vacuum. You should get familiar with power of the situation, which is a psychological term. while you're at it look up learned helplessness and fundamental attribution error if you haven't already considered those things.

That phrasing, assuming it is what you meant to say, may reveal a fundamental misconception about what your opponents are saying
 
WakeandBake said:
What are you even rambling about? High School graduation rates haven't plunged recently, in fact they have increased since 2000. The problem here is not so much teen pregnancy or high school graduation or single-parent homes. It is that your beloved free market is not producing the decent-wage jobs necessary to carry these individuals into the middle class. The steadfast opposition by people not unlike yourself to government spending on infrastructure projects and works projects or any projects outside military armaments compounds the problem. So then you and Paul Ryan ride in on your high horses and fire arrows of blame at the American kids who - as history has proven over and over - will succeed and excel if just given the opportunities.

Michelle Obama was addressing a gaggle of young people when she admonished them, attempting to light a fire under some of them. Paul Ryan was waxing political in the wonkosphere and touting actual legislation he wants to advance that would essentially fuck things up even more for these youths.
Click to expand...

This. The problem with your perspective JH isn't that what you propose wouldn't help reduce the number of people in poverty, it is that it is a purely preventative approach to a "condition" which cannot be fully prevented. If every poor person got a high school diploma, there would still be plenty of people in poverty because there aren't jobs out there for them (you can skip your "but but but what about illegal immigrants...." since they don't have a diploma and thus their jobs don't require the magical high school diploma you think will land people open jobs in today's market). Poverty is a natural by product of just about every single society in history and will be unless some civilization were to adopt strict population controls ensuring that the population was the perfect size to fill all available jobs. What you are proposing is akin to saying the way to treat/cure lung cancer is to eliminate smoking. Well sure that would help prevent a lot of cases but people would still get lung cancer either due to smoking or simply because, like poverty, it is just a reality of the world. You can do everything right and get lung cancer and you can go to high school and not have kids and still live in poverty. There are outside forces operating in this scenario and you seem to just choose to ignore them. I wouldn't advocate for people that happen to get lung cancer to not get treatment because they may not have made all the best choices (treatment my premiums subsidize for the record much like taxes:gov't programs) and I won't do the same to people in poverty. Preventative measures are great but if that is ALL you advocate for it doesn't work in the real world because poverty has and always will occur.

As to your standard "you guys think so poorly of these people...." nonsense, just give it a rest. Nobody thinks poor people intrinsically are incapable of achieving better, we just have enough of a grasp on the reality of the USA and the economy to realize that not every single poor person CAN achieve better because of how the system is set up. Acknowledging a segment of the population cannot realistically do something (climb out of poverty without help) is not the same thing as believing those people are inherently incapable of it. There will always be poor people and your apparent inability to understand that is quite mind boggling.
 
“Comrades!' he cried. 'You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in taking these things is to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science, comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well-being of a pig. We pigs are brainworkers. The whole management and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink the milk and eat those apples.”
 
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