D
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Confronting one's own hypocrisy is always the toughest part. As I said, watch Democrats and turn off the sound? You'll see Republicans.
income inequality debate
- Thread starter TownieDeac
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Confronting one's own hypocrisy is always the toughest part. As I said, watch Democrats and turn off the sound? You'll see Republicans.
DeaconSig
Well-known member
ConnorEl
Well-known member
Sure glad I chose to be borned into good circumstances.
Thank…..meee!
Thank…..meee!
D
Deleted member 7528
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The best part is the stunningly successful rate of people who don't engage in self-destructive behavior controls for "good circumstances" and others. Choices matter. We should support policies that foster good choices, and cease subsidizing harmful choices. If we care. Do we?
ConnorEl
Well-known member
Hard to tell.
Nah, not really.
Nah, not really.
TownieDeac
words are futile devices
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Help with college tuition, paying for a weddding, a down payment for a house, etc.
I wasn’t born rich by any means, my dad was the first of his family and second generation American to go to college, and he couldn’t have afforded to send me to Wake if he wasn’t a professor there, and I worked multiple jobs to help pay my way through.
The definition holds—my life choices have been supported by family wealth built by institutional privilege and subsidized by middle class programs that largely no longer exist.
deactherunner
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How old were you when you chose to be white and grow up in a two parent home?
DeaconCav06
Dickie Hemric
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That’s a fair definition.
Tobacco Road
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How would you characterize working?
How long have we used police to try to prevent crime?
Louis Gossett Jr
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It’s also not even a great argument because at face value it’s the two parent household stuff yet to prevent single parent households it’s birth control and abortion, but someone’s party is at the furthest possible position opposite of that.
D
Deleted member 7528
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So I didn't choose my demographic circumstances nor my family of origin. One of the best parts about making the three (free) choices that will keep you out of permanent poverty in this country is that the data holds no matter the circumstances of your birth.
If your gotcha! attempt is asking me if I benefited from growing up in a two parent home, of course I did. My parents could have sent me to college using generational wealth if they wanted to (#PSF though). Regardless, life has been unquestionably better because they....well, let's see here...finished their educations, worked full time jobs and waited to have children until after they got married. I do believe that is my point.
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D
Deleted member 7528
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If Bill Gates makes $1M per year, and the median family income is $24,000.00 per year, we have one level of income inequality.
If Bill Gates makes $1B per year, and the median family income is $68,703.00 per year, income inequality has significantly expanded, but aren't we better off?
Somebody tell me why we care about income inequality at all, instead of focusing on median family incomes. The link to the median family income in 2019 is encouraging. "Highlights" as follows:
Income:
Median household income was $68,703 in 2019, an increase of 6.8 percent from the 2018 median of $64,324 (Figure 1 and Table A-1).
The 2019 real median incomes of family households and nonfamily households increased 7.3 percent and 6.2 percent from their respective 2018 estimates (Figure 1 and Table A-1). This is the fifth consecutive annual increase in median household income for family households, and the second consecutive increase for nonfamily households.
The 2019 real median incomes of White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic households all increased from their 2018 medians (Figure 1 and Table A-1).
Real median household incomes increased for all regions in 2019; 6.8 percent in the Northeast, 4.8 percent in the Midwest, 6.1 percent in the South, and 7.0 percent in the West (Figure 1 and Table A-1).
Earnings:
Between 2018 and 2019, the real median earnings of all workers and full-time, year-round workers increased 1.4 percent and 0.8 percent, respectively (Figure 4 and Table A-6).
The 2019 real median earnings of men ($57,456) and women ($47,299) who worked full-time, year-round increased by 2.1 percent and 3.0 percent, respectively (Figure 4 and Table A-6). The 2019 female-to-male earnings ratio was 0.823, not statistically different from the 2018 ratio (Figure 5).
Between 2018 and 2019, the total number of people with earnings, regardless of work experience, increased by about 2.2 million. The number of full-time, year-round workers increased by approximately 1.2 million.
Poverty:
The official poverty rate in 2019 was 10.5 percent, down 1.3 percentage points from 11.8 percent in 2018. This is the fifth consecutive annual decline in poverty. Since 2014, the poverty rate has fallen 4.3 percentage points, from 14.8 percent to 10.5 percent (Figure 7 and Table B-5).
The 2019 poverty rate of 10.5 percent is the lowest rate observed since estimates were initially published in 1959 (Figure 7 and Table B-5).
In 2019, there were 34.0 million people in poverty, approximately 4.2 million fewer people than 2018 (Figure 7 and Table B-1).
For all demographic groups shown in Figure 8 and Table B-1, poverty rates in 2019 were either lower than or not statistically different from those in 2018.
Between 2018 and 2019, poverty rates declined for all race and Hispanic origin groups shown in Figure 8 and Table B-1. The poverty rate for Whites decreased 1.0 percentage point to 9.1 percent. The poverty rate for Blacks decreased by 2.0 percentage points to 18.8 percent. The poverty rate for Hispanics decreased by 1.8 percentage points to 15.7 percent. The poverty rate for Asians decreased 2.8 percentage points to 7.3 percent (Figure 8 and Tables B-1 and B-5).
Between 2018 and 2019, poverty rates for people under the age of 18 decreased 1.8 percentage points, from 16.2 percent to 14.4 percent. Poverty rates decreased 1.2 percentage points for people aged 18 to 64, from 10.7 percent to 9.4 percent. The poverty rate for people aged 65 and older decreased by 0.9 percentage points, from 9.7 percent to 8.9 percent (Figure 8 and Table B-1).
If Bill Gates makes $1B per year, and the median family income is $68,703.00 per year, income inequality has significantly expanded, but aren't we better off?
Somebody tell me why we care about income inequality at all, instead of focusing on median family incomes. The link to the median family income in 2019 is encouraging. "Highlights" as follows:
Income:
Median household income was $68,703 in 2019, an increase of 6.8 percent from the 2018 median of $64,324 (Figure 1 and Table A-1).
The 2019 real median incomes of family households and nonfamily households increased 7.3 percent and 6.2 percent from their respective 2018 estimates (Figure 1 and Table A-1). This is the fifth consecutive annual increase in median household income for family households, and the second consecutive increase for nonfamily households.
The 2019 real median incomes of White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic households all increased from their 2018 medians (Figure 1 and Table A-1).
Real median household incomes increased for all regions in 2019; 6.8 percent in the Northeast, 4.8 percent in the Midwest, 6.1 percent in the South, and 7.0 percent in the West (Figure 1 and Table A-1).
Earnings:
Between 2018 and 2019, the real median earnings of all workers and full-time, year-round workers increased 1.4 percent and 0.8 percent, respectively (Figure 4 and Table A-6).
The 2019 real median earnings of men ($57,456) and women ($47,299) who worked full-time, year-round increased by 2.1 percent and 3.0 percent, respectively (Figure 4 and Table A-6). The 2019 female-to-male earnings ratio was 0.823, not statistically different from the 2018 ratio (Figure 5).
Between 2018 and 2019, the total number of people with earnings, regardless of work experience, increased by about 2.2 million. The number of full-time, year-round workers increased by approximately 1.2 million.
Poverty:
The official poverty rate in 2019 was 10.5 percent, down 1.3 percentage points from 11.8 percent in 2018. This is the fifth consecutive annual decline in poverty. Since 2014, the poverty rate has fallen 4.3 percentage points, from 14.8 percent to 10.5 percent (Figure 7 and Table B-5).
The 2019 poverty rate of 10.5 percent is the lowest rate observed since estimates were initially published in 1959 (Figure 7 and Table B-5).
In 2019, there were 34.0 million people in poverty, approximately 4.2 million fewer people than 2018 (Figure 7 and Table B-1).
For all demographic groups shown in Figure 8 and Table B-1, poverty rates in 2019 were either lower than or not statistically different from those in 2018.
Between 2018 and 2019, poverty rates declined for all race and Hispanic origin groups shown in Figure 8 and Table B-1. The poverty rate for Whites decreased 1.0 percentage point to 9.1 percent. The poverty rate for Blacks decreased by 2.0 percentage points to 18.8 percent. The poverty rate for Hispanics decreased by 1.8 percentage points to 15.7 percent. The poverty rate for Asians decreased 2.8 percentage points to 7.3 percent (Figure 8 and Tables B-1 and B-5).
Between 2018 and 2019, poverty rates for people under the age of 18 decreased 1.8 percentage points, from 16.2 percent to 14.4 percent. Poverty rates decreased 1.2 percentage points for people aged 18 to 64, from 10.7 percent to 9.4 percent. The poverty rate for people aged 65 and older decreased by 0.9 percentage points, from 9.7 percent to 8.9 percent (Figure 8 and Table B-1).
Milhouse
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I bet. How did they manage? Bootstraps?
D
Deleted member 7528
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Nah. All of it on government benefits. It's a rocket ship to privilege. I can't believe you suckers are falling for the "work, save, plan" approach.
Deacon923
Scooter Banks
This is probably a good place to drop in this Cato piece on the impact of government transfers on poverty rates. https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/reassessing-facts-about-inequality-poverty-redistribution#effect-of-uncounted-income-on-poverty-measures
TLDR: government transfers have a massive impact on poverty rates and keep huge numbers of Americans from being poor.
I do not post this because I agree with all of Cato's conclusions or their recommended policy choices, but simply to refute the trolling refrain that government anti-poverty programs aren't actually reducing poverty. They are and have been for several generations.
Reasonable people can differ on whether income (or wealth) inequality is a feature or a bug of our capitalist society and what should be done about it, but the simple fact that providing money to poor people makes them less poor is not really up for debate.
There is also very scant evidence that receiving benefits makes any significant number of people "dependent" on those benefits. From the same Cato article:
Again, it's up for debate whether, in the richest nation in the history of the world, it should be acceptable that over 1/3 of households drop into poverty for months at a time during any given 2 year period. But it appears that very few of them actually stay there, basking in the luxury of those sweet sweet gummint benefits.
I'm sure the resident conserva-troll has some big insights that the scholars at Cato have missed, but I doubt he will grace us with those insights in any significant detail.
TLDR: government transfers have a massive impact on poverty rates and keep huge numbers of Americans from being poor.
I do not post this because I agree with all of Cato's conclusions or their recommended policy choices, but simply to refute the trolling refrain that government anti-poverty programs aren't actually reducing poverty. They are and have been for several generations.
Reasonable people can differ on whether income (or wealth) inequality is a feature or a bug of our capitalist society and what should be done about it, but the simple fact that providing money to poor people makes them less poor is not really up for debate.
There is also very scant evidence that receiving benefits makes any significant number of people "dependent" on those benefits. From the same Cato article:
Again, it's up for debate whether, in the richest nation in the history of the world, it should be acceptable that over 1/3 of households drop into poverty for months at a time during any given 2 year period. But it appears that very few of them actually stay there, basking in the luxury of those sweet sweet gummint benefits.
I'm sure the resident conserva-troll has some big insights that the scholars at Cato have missed, but I doubt he will grace us with those insights in any significant detail.
D
Deleted member 7528
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Based on this data, let's find out what you personally believe: what choices are you making for your family?
ChrisL68
Riley Skinner
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Is it your contention that people magically started making better choices from 2014 to 2019? It seems like you like data when it supports your preconceived position and when it doesn't you just ignore it and go back to your trope.
D
Deleted member 7528
Guest
I don't believe your best argument for these policies is that they were most effective during the second half of the Trump administration.
I do enjoy that you all consider "trolling" to point out that not a single one of you practices this plan you are wishing for others. If only you would preach what you practice.
BeachBumDeac
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“It’s weird that all of you won’t try being poor if you want to help these poor people so much”
Deacon923
Scooter Banks
Based on this data, let's find out what you personally believe: what choices are you making for your family?
First of all: none of your damn business.
Second: it doesn't matter, because not all families are like my family. Government policy isn't, or shouldn't be, about requiring everyone to make the same narrow set of lifestyle choices in order to stay out of poverty. It also isn't, or shouldn't be, about punishing people who fail to make the "right" choices, or who make the "right" choices and still end up in a bad situation due to the vicissitudes of life, or who try to make the "right" choices but are restricted from doing so because of structural issues in the economy. It should be about creating the most prosperity for the greatest number of people, to the extent possible without significantly hampering positive economic activity. Where to strike that balance is obviously a legitimate subject of vehement political debate, as it should be.
Third: I don't quote trolls, because I enjoy denying you the dopamine rush of seeing that alert come up on your phone. Have a nice day, troll.
First of all: none of your damn business.
Second: it doesn't matter, because not all families are like my family. Government policy isn't, or shouldn't be, about requiring everyone to make the same narrow set of lifestyle choices in order to stay out of poverty. It also isn't, or shouldn't be, about punishing people who fail to make the "right" choices, or who make the "right" choices and still end up in a bad situation due to the vicissitudes of life, or who try to make the "right" choices but are restricted from doing so because of structural issues in the economy. It should be about creating the most prosperity for the greatest number of people, to the extent possible without significantly hampering positive economic activity. Where to strike that balance is obviously a legitimate subject of vehement political debate, as it should be.
Third: I don't quote trolls, because I enjoy denying you the dopamine rush of seeing that alert come up on your phone. Have a nice day, troll.