Is this accurate?

[MBADeac]

Far from a Bzz-whatever, but why is this such a surprising statistic?

The overall talent level was never this poor under GDO, Skip, or Dino.

Hell... Odom's first team which finished dead last in the ACC would drag this team up and down the floor for 40 minutes. And that team had Derrick McQueen, Anthony Tucker, Stan King, and Robert Siler.

as i said on another thread, we need to find out who the GM of this team is that is not providing buzz the talent he needs to win and fire him/her

 

[RJKarl]

as i said on another thread, we need to find out who the GM of this team is that is not providing buzz the talent he needs to win and fire him/her

The GM for this group was Dino and half a recruiting season of [Redacted] in a really weak recruiting year.

We'll see if [Redacted] is a good, decent or terrible GM by the 2012 recruiting class.

 

[wakephan09]

When you take out the [Redacted]-coached games, we have lost 6 games by 20 or more points in the Joel. Five of those six teams were in the top 5, and the other was in the top 10 (#8 dook, who went on to the national title game, in 1990).

So no, there are not plenty of instances when we would have been pleased keeping it within 20 to a 13-6 team that's lost to two Ivy Leaguers already this year.

Fair enough point. The thing that most here don't seem to understand, is that I don't post that in defense of Buzz. I am just being realistic; we were mismatched against a big, strong team with good shooters and we aren't very good. I don't have lowered expectations and I don't claim any 'moral' victory - I still think we should be competing for Titles. I just acknowledge that it is not going to be this year or next.

Also, for anyone interested, I pulled up the results. We lost big to some good teams. (I also included a couple of losses that were only a possession away from twenty points).




Jan. 20 1990 8 Duke H L 69-97

Jan. 9 1991 Colorado H L 72-89 (17)

Jan. 13 1993 3 Duke H L 59-86

Jan. 14 1998 (Wed.) DUKE L, 88-52

Sat 02/17/2001 *Maryland Winston-Salem, N.C. R-J/ESPN-2L, 73-56 (17)

Wed 01/23/2002 Maryland Winston-Salem, N.C. ESPN2L, 85-63

Thu 02/21/2002 Duke Winston-Salem, N.C. ESPNL, 90-61

01/8/2006 Duke Winston-Salem, N.C. ESPNL, 82-64 (18)

01/24/2007 Carolina Winston-Salem, N.C. ESPNL, 88-60

 

[RJKarl]

Don't bother them with facts. Their blind, ignorant hatred has no use for them.

 

[vtwhat etc]

Don't bother them with facts. Their blind, ignorant hatred has no use for them.

 

[RJKarl]

You add the depth we have coming in and a couple more good players which are included in the group and we'd be sitting on about 14 wins now.

We're making strides (to all who aren't blind). That's they way you rebuild. We'll see next year if this going to recover.

 

[deaclite]

rj, it has been well documented that Coach Bz has only himself to blame for his terrible recruiting class in 2011. The 2012 is solid but has been oversold from the gitgo. We are heading to middle of the road status as I have been saying. There is no real upside in sight.

 

[TBR]

I don't care about next year. That's shortsighted. I care about the next 5 years when I am afraid we will be stuck in the middle of a mediocre conference.

 

[RJKarl]

rj, it has been well documented that Coach Bz has only himself to blame for his terrible recruiting class in 2011. The 2012 is solid but has been oversold from the gitgo. We are heading to middle of the road status as I have been saying. There is no real upside in sight.

It's NOT been "well documented" that [Redacted] has "only himself to blame" for 2011. That simply isn't true.

Should we have taken Sullivan? Maybe, but he hasn't done much for a weak Clemson team.

Other than that he was too late to start recruiting.

As 2012 being "oversold", Scout has it #13. ESPN has it at #15 or so. Tha'ts what peoepl her are saying.

There are about 320 other D1 schools that would love to have our class.

 

[deacvision7]

Buzz started no later in recruiting that Gottfried did, and NC State has a good class coming in next year.

Your argument doesn't hold water. Unless you think 1 whole extra week is what put Gottfried on top.

 

[OldGoldBeard]

It's NOT been "well documented" that [Redacted] has "only himself to blame" for 2011. That simply isn't true.

Should we have taken Sullivan? Maybe, but he hasn't done much for a weak Clemson team.

Other than that he was too late to start recruiting.

As 2012 being "oversold", Scout has it #13. ESPN has it at #15 or so. Tha'ts what peoepl her are saying.

There are about 320 other D1 schools that would love to have our class.

Start dates: [Redacted]- April 13, 2010
Gottfried- April 5, 2011
Turgeon- May 9, 2011
Gregory- March 28, 2011

ESPN rankings of first recruiting class: Gottfried- 6th nationally
Turgeon- 22nd nationally
Gregory- 23rd nationally
[Redacted]- last in the ACC

And we're 19th in the updated ESPN rankings.

 

[deacvision7]

It is so amusing that rj keeps going back to that repeatedly proven wrong talking point of his. It simply isn't true at all.

 

[RJKarl]

Start dates: [Redacted]- April 13, 2010
Gottfried- April 5, 2011
Turgeon- May 9, 2011
Gregory- March 28, 2011

ESPN rankings of first recruiting class: Gottfried- 6th nationally
Turgeon- 22nd nationally
Gregory- 23rd nationally
[Redacted]- last in the ACC

And we're 19th in the updated ESPN rankings.

turgeon brought a recruit with him.

Gottfried did great.

We weren't in very good shape with any recruits (other than Sullivan) when [Redacted] took over. The other schoold were.

To say it's ALL [Redacted]'s fault is total BS. As I've said, he made some mistakes, but he also had to do things the other coaches didn't. The AD didn't want much to do with what had happened recently.

Again, if you dont' think Bxdelik is the anti-Christ, you are automatically wrong here.

 

[OldGoldBeard]

We weren't in very good shape with any recruits (other than Sullivan) when [Redacted] took over. The other schoold were.

Hinds has no favorites at this point, but did mention that Villanova, Oklahoma State, and Wake Forest meet the criteria of what he is looking for in a school. He said the environment, academics, and style of play are amongst the main factors.

The talented floor general did concede that at one point he did have a favorite, Wake Forest. "When Coach [Dino] Gaudio was there, they were my top school. When I heard coach [was not going to be there anymore] stuff cleared up, but they are still up there."

Link

 

[deaclite]

No one in college basketball knows what is going on with our program. Outside of our little bubble here they think we have lost our collective mind. I guess we are aiming to be like the women's program.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

Our disadvantage in 2011 wasn't that Bzz was late to the party or that recruits didn't get to see his system or any of that -- it's that it appeared that almost our entire team was returning. I know what Skip pulled off with ATT was almost completely unprecedented in recent times (bringing in a top recruiting class while returning an entire team).

Passing on Sullivan actually looks like a good move. It still makes no sense that we didn't even try to bring in a higher rated point guard though.

 

[RJKarl]

Hinds has no favorites at this point, but did mention that Villanova, Oklahoma State, and Wake Forest meet the criteria of what he is looking for in a school. He said the environment, academics, and style of play are amongst the main factors.

The talented floor general did concede that at one point he did have a favorite, Wake Forest. "When Coach [Dino] Gaudio was there, they were my top school. When I heard coach [was not going to be there anymore] stuff cleared up, but they are still up there."

Link

Hinds also clearly had issues with academics. If you look at his final three each was among the worst academic schools in D1.

This is a putee guess, but i wouldn't have been surprised if the new attitude towards academcis scared him off.

I'll say this again knowing it won't have any impact:

[Redacted] could have done marginally better in 2011 under the circumstances he was handed, but it wasn't 100% his fault as many here stated and try to defend. It simply isn't so.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

Hinds also clearly had issues with academics. If you look at his final three each was among the worst academic schools in D1.

This is a putee guess, but i wouldn't have been surprised if the new attitude towards academcis scared him off.

I'll say this again knowing it won't have any impact:

[Redacted] could have done marginally better in 2011 under the circumstances he was handed, but it wasn't 100% his fault as many here stated and try to defend. It simply isn't so.

Correct about Hinds -- he had issues getting cleared at WVU:

http://wvgazette.com/Sports/201108221911

I think Larkin was the big miss -- although with his issues, who knows if he would have ever wound up at Wake no matter what happened.

 

[deaclite]

Yes, Larkin,Hinds and Burke had high interest in us but we pulled out until TC got hurt and then we were in full panic mode. The sad case of how we lost Barksdale to VaT comes to mind as well. I could go on but this is old news. I want the Bz supporters to say what defines success next year and the season after because a cup of coffee in the Ncaa in year 4 on theBz era shouldn't cut it in my book.

 

[tiltdeac]

A rare completely legitimate Buzz outer argument, imo. Though I'll buy the fact that he may have gotten some bad intel from his staff, the responsibility of the recruiting class falls to him, and it was a failure.

Obviously next year's class helps to restore some faith in his recruiting ability. Now go get Davon Reed or Stanley Robinson please.