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ISIS attack in Bangladesh

Milhouse said:
wrangor, randomly getting shot by a handgun is a bigger threat to kill you than some radical muslim asshole
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Yep. Again, either ISIS isn't planning to attack the US or the Obama administration is stopping it.
 
Wrangor said:
Stats don't always refute a point. I feel like this should be self evident but I will illustrate. More people die each year from falling than gun deaths. So according to your 'refutation' we should first concern ourselves with people's balance. Stats can mean what you want them to mean. It is what I made my first point. Amazingly there are people (apparently you I guess) that consider gun wielding babies a larger threat than Radical Islam. I am not sure how to have a reasonable conversation with that. If that is not what you are representing with your 'information' then please clarify yourself because it sure seems that is the position you are taking. :confused:
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I can't believe anyone would have rad ONW's post and come to the conclusion that Wrangor did in the RED part above. It's almost a bob-like reading of that part.
 
Wrangor said:
My point is that there are still many people on this board that continue to propose that ISIS/radical Islam is less of a problem than babies with guns, when in fact ISIS/radical Islam is the absolute most important issue of our current time.
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Wrangor said:
Stats don't always refute a point. I feel like this should be self evident but I will illustrate. More people die each year from falling than gun deaths. So according to your 'refutation' we should first concern ourselves with people's balance. Stats can mean what you want them to mean. It is what I made my first point. Amazingly there are people (apparently you I guess) that consider gun wielding babies a larger threat than Radical Islam. I am not sure how to have a reasonable conversation with that. If that is not what you are representing with your 'information' then please clarify yourself because it sure seems that is the position you are taking. :confused:
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Start a "reasonable conversation" by "illustrating" your claim that "in fact ISIS/radical Islam is the absolute most important issue of our current time."

I admittedly feel more threatened by ISIS/radical Islam than "gun wielding infants," but the reality is, I shouldn't. You're conflating real with perceived threats, and you're spending a whole lot of money, blood, and time on a perceived problem that can't be fixed with one that is real and can be.

ETA: jhmd, feel free to not make the ONW thinks disarming infants will solve all our problems post because it's a predictable, hyperbolic straw man, and you're better than that.
 
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ONW said:
Start a "reasonable conversation" by "illustrating" your claim that "in fact ISIS/radical Islam is the absolute most important issue of our current time."

I admittedly feel more threatened by ISIS/radical Islam than "gun wielding infants," but the reality is, I shouldn't. You're conflating real with perceived threats, and you're spending a whole lot of money, blood, and time on a perceived problem that can't be fixed with one that is real and can be.

ETA: jhmd, feel free to not make the ONW thinks disarming infants will solve all our problems post because it's a predictable, hyperbolic straw man, and you're better than that.
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On the road right now. Will get back to you. The reality is that you should.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RJKarl said:
I can't believe anyone would have rad ONW's post and come to the conclusion that Wrangor did in the RED part above. It's almost a bob-like reading of that part.
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Except that is exactly what he is saying. Read his own words. Read Millhouses post. That is the exact point they are making.


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wrangor, the ISIS assholes couldn't even find where you live on a map. i bet there are a lot of handgun owners where you live though. and i bet all of them aren't responsible gun owners.

that is the point. do you disagree?
 
so who is winning the terror death toll between Westboro and ISIS?
 
ONW said:
Start a "reasonable conversation" by "illustrating" your claim that "in fact ISIS/radical Islam is the absolute most important issue of our current time."

I admittedly feel more threatened by ISIS/radical Islam than "gun wielding infants," but the reality is, I shouldn't. You're conflating real with perceived threats, and you're spending a whole lot of money, blood, and time on a perceived problem that can't be fixed with one that is real and can be.

ETA: jhmd, feel free to not make the ONW thinks disarming infants will solve all our problems post because it's a predictable, hyperbolic straw man, and you're better than that.
Click to expand...



Milhouse said:
wrangor, the ISIS assholes couldn't even find where you live on a map. i bet there are a lot of handgun owners where you live though. and i bet all of them aren't responsible gun owners.

that is the point. do you disagree?
Click to expand...

Here is why I find ISIS/Radical Islam to be a much greater threat than gun violence to our nation. Your point about the odds of me personally being killed by a random act of gun violence vs. by a terrorist are clearly accurate. The stats bear that out, and I don't disagree with that point. However, I don't view our national security in light of simply the odds of my own personal safety. See here is the point (at least for me). Gun violence is real, and I think that I have made myself clear previously that there are common sense measures that would be good to implement. However, while the NRA clearly has an agenda (motivated primarily by profit), the individual acts of gun violence do not. A 4 year old shooting his brother, a 19 year old shooting a store clerk, and a 40 year old wife who finds her husband sleeping around and shoots him have zero connection. They are all essentially random acts of violence. We certainly need to do our best to reduce those acts, and I am not understating that, but that is not a true national security issue for me. Random acts of gun violence do not threaten to fundamentally change the way we live.

Radical Islam, on the other hand, has a clear agenda and it is connected with every act of violence. From Paris, the the world trade center, to Benghazi, to Bangladesh, or Orlando, etc... they are all interconnected via Jihad. The goal of radical Islam is world domination and left to its own devices it will become an exponential threat to the world. The numbers are staggering when you realize how many practicing members of the Muslim faith are sympathetic or downright approve of the terrorist actions, and even more who approve of barbaric human rights violations (beheadings, chopping off limbs, stonings, etc...). Again, all religion in some ways are proselytistic (I think that is a word), but Islam has no issue, and in fact the modern interpretation of the Quran by millions of people encourages the advancement of the Caliphate through both political and violent means.

Radical, dedicated ideologies are always a major factor in any geopolitical cake that baked. Consider Che Guevera, Communism, and Cuba. Che, Castro, and 80 soldiers landed on the shores of Cuba in 1956 and three years later he had control of the country. 19 dedicated soldiers hatched a plan 15 years ago and brought our country to its knees. Radical Islam is not simply going to disappear into the night. It is THE major threat of our time, and the first step to defeating the problem is simply admitting that it is THE problem.

So that is why I have a real problem with sugarcoating the issue. I have made it clear that I am not on board with Trump's ideas of deporting Muslims or banning immigration if you are muslim. In fact I find that to be counter productive, but we do need to be honest about the real problem. When I see multiple board posters here that I respect being so naive about this issue it is concerning to me. Yes, I am much more likely to be killed by a handgun in my hometown. I understand that. That does not mean that handguns are a bigger global or national security threat than the advancement of Radical Islam. I hope that explains my position. We seem to fundamentally disagree, and I believe that the other side of this issue (Millhouse, ONW, etc...) are misusing stats to prop up an argument that has no real world, common sense basis.
 
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Milhouse said:
wrangor, the ISIS assholes couldn't even find where you live on a map. i bet there are a lot of handgun owners where you live though. and i bet all of them aren't responsible gun owners.

that is the point. do you disagree?
Click to expand...

They don't even have maps in The Iraq.
 
Wrangor said:
Stats don't always refute a point. I feel like this should be self evident but I will illustrate. More people die each year from falling than gun deaths. So according to your 'refutation' we should first concern ourselves with people's balance. Stats can mean what you want them to mean. It is what I made my first point. Amazingly there are people (apparently you I guess) that consider gun wielding babies a larger threat than Radical Islam. I am not sure how to have a reasonable conversation with that. If that is not what you are representing with your 'information' then please clarify yourself because it sure seems that is the position you are taking. :confused:
Click to expand...

Amish gun-wielding babies killed 125 Iraqis yesterday, 25 of which were children themselves. Thanks again, Amish gun-wielding babies.
 
Wrangor said:
Here is why I find ISIS/Radical Islam to be a much greater threat than gun violence to our nation. Your point about the odds of me personally being killed by a random act of gun violence vs. by a terrorist are clearly accurate. The stats bear that out, and I don't disagree with that point. However, I don't view our national security in light of simply the odds of my own personal safety. See here is the point (at least for me)....
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Fair points. Well presented.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Amish gun-wielding babies killed 125 Iraqis yesterday, 25 of which were children themselves. Thanks again, Amish gun-wielding babies.
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Iraq should ban the growing Amish gun-wielding baby migration fo sho.
 
Wrangor said:
Except that is exactly what he is saying. Read his own words. Read Millhouses post. That is the exact point they are making.


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That's NOT what he's saying. He's saying we don't pay any attention to the killings by guns in the US but we do care about ISIS killings.
 
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ONW said:
Iraq should ban the growing Amish gun-wielding baby migration fo sho.
Click to expand...

Next you are in NYC, you should go to the Amish store in Tribeca. It's about 2-3 blocks from the WTC. They have lots of cool stuff.
 
Wrangor said:
Here is why I find ISIS/Radical Islam to be a much greater threat than gun violence to our nation. Your point about the odds of me personally being killed by a random act of gun violence vs. by a terrorist are clearly accurate. The stats bear that out, and I don't disagree with that point. However, I don't view our national security in light of simply the odds of my own personal safety. See here is the point (at least for me). Gun violence is real, and I think that I have made myself clear previously that there are common sense measures that make sense. However, while the NRA clearly has an agenda (motivated primarily by profit), the individual acts of gun violence do not. A 4 year old shooting his brother, a 19 year old shooting a store clerk, and a 40 year old wife who finds her husband sleeping around and shoots him have zero connection. They are all essentially random acts of violence. We certainly need to do our best to reduce those acts, and I am not understating that, but that is not a true national security issue for me. Random acts of gun violence do not threaten to fundamentally change the way we live.

Radical Islam, on the other hand, has a clear agenda and it is connected with every act of violence. From Paris, the the world trade center, to Benghazi, to Bangladesh, or Orlando, etc... they are all interconnected via Jihad. The goal of radical Islam is world domination and left to its own devices it will become an exponential threat to the world. The numbers are staggering when you realize how many practicing members of the Muslim faith are sympathetic or downright approve of the terrorist actions, and even more who approve of barbaric human rights violations (beheadings, chopping off limbs, stonings, etc...). Again, all religion in some ways are proselytistic (I think that is a word), but Islam has no issue, and in fact the modern interpretation of the Quran by a millions of people encourages the advancement of the Caliphate through both political and violent means.

Radical, dedicated ideologies are always a major factor in any geopolitical cake that baked. Consider Che Guevera, Communism, and Cuba. Che, Castro, and 80 soldiers landed on the shores of Cuba in 1956 and three years later he had control of the country. 19 dedicated soldiers hatched a plan 15 years ago and brought our country to its needs. Radical Islam is not simply going to disappear into the night. It is THE major threat of our time, and the first step to defeating the problem is simply admitting that it is THE problem.

So that is why I have a real problem with sugarcoating the issue. I have made it clear that I am not on board with Trump's ideas of deporting Muslims or banning immigration if you are muslim. In fact I find that to be counter productive, but we do need to be honest about the real problem. When I see multiple board posters here that I respect being so naive about this issue it is concerning. Yes, I am much more likely to be killed by a handgun in my hometown. I understand that. That does not mean that handguns are a bigger global or national security threat than the advancement of Radical Islam. I hope that explains my position. We seem to fundamentally disagree, and I believe that the other side of this issue (Millhouse, ONW, etc...) are misusing stats to prop up an argument that has no real world, common sense basis.
Click to expand...

Wrangor made a good post.
 
Still doesn't add up though. The toddler, the 19 year old, and the angry wife do have something in common- access to guns with relative ease, and with encouragement from the gun industry in some cases. All ginned up with fear of everyone who doesn't look and pray like them fomented by profiteers under the guise of "freedom" and "God-given rights" and other Americany sounding stuff with hands on hearts. It's a giant load of bullshit wrapped in red white and blue paper. I own rifles and have enjoyed plinking cans in the backyard, but America has gotten all stupid about it like it does about a lot of things, mostly through fear mongering.

Radical Islam is not worth the disproportionate spending and energy it recieves over domestic gun control, it just doesn't.
 
WakeandBake said:
Still doesn't add up though. The toddler, the 19 year old, and the angry wife do have something in common- access to guns with relative ease, and with encouragement from the gun industry in some cases. All ginned up with fear of everyone who doesn't look and pray like them fomented by profiteers under the guise of "freedom" and "God-given rights" and other Americany sounding stuff with hands on hearts. It's a giant load of bullshit wrapped in red white and blue paper. I own rifles and have enjoyed plinking cans in the backyard, but America has gotten all stupid about it like it does about a lot of things, mostly through fear mongering.

Radical Islam is not worth the disproportionate spending and energy it recieves over domestic gun control, it just doesn't.
Click to expand...

The Islamic terror attacks have something in common, too, and that is the element of every single one of them being intentional. I don't think everyone is ready for gun ownership (sidenote: kudos for checking the requisite "Listen, I have guns, I still think..." box) and there is much worse left to do to reduce gun deaths...but it's hard to hear the outrage at the right turning a deaf ear to the gun problem with the left doing the same thing to radical Islam. They're both a problem.
 
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