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islam

sailordeac said:
poor results of the existing welfare state; you don't have to be a White Evangelical Christian to know that
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The welfare state exists within an economy.
 
Also what's odd to me is that 34% of folks who believe scripture is the absolute word of god think that helping the poor does more harm than good. What do you suppose they are reading and interpreting literally?
 
Trump’s tweets?
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I don't understand what you meant here. You say it's not getting better, but also that it's getting further away from itself. What's the difference? I'm sure that we're both aware of very many liberal churches and splinter denominations who are very accepting. Do they not give you hope? Regarding civil rights activism, inner city churches are still great hubs of activism.
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Meh, most inner city churches are still staunchly against gay rights.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
Meh, most inner city churches are still staunchly against gay rights.
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Except that's increasingly less true:
http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/historically-black-protestant/#views-about-homosexuality

While still a majority of black Christian folks don't support gay marriage, the number is lower than that of white evangelicals.
http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/historically-black-protestant/#views-about-same-sex-marriage
 
wakephan09 said:
IaT, did you or your community vocally support either the "Boston Declaration" or the "Nashville Statement" ??
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I signed the Boston Declaration (and know a couple of the original signatures - one of whom graduated from Wake in 2000), although it wasn't much of a discussion in our community - mainly because a lot of what is says is a natural progression from our understanding of who were are called to be as followers of Jesus (which I believe is the ultimate outcome of taking the Bible seriously and authoritatively) and I only knew about it because I had seen it on a couple of friends' facebook pages. I didn't know it was a well-known statement, and I doubt many (any) in our community knew of its existence and therefore wasn't a topic of conversation/question

I was vocal against the Nashville Statement, although did not go as far as signing or uplifting the Denver [counter]statement, mainly because it wasn't so much of a statement as one person's response. We talked at length about this in our community because of its dismissive and destructive language that is antithetical to the teachings of Jesus and how he conducted himself. We have affirming and non-affirming members of our community, and were unanimous in our opposition to the Nashville Statement.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
25% of US Christians are evangelical protestants, and 75% of those folks are white. That's a pretty significant chunk.

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/racial-and-ethnic-composition/
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This was a great discussion on this subject on the Pass the Mic podcast (which is a great follow by the way, done by what used to be the Reformed African American Network, which recently changed its name the The Witness: a Black Christian Collective):

http://www.podasterynetwork.com/2017/12/11/am-i-an-evangelical-perspectives-from-women-and-black-christians/
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Except that's increasingly less true:
http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/historically-black-protestant/#views-about-homosexuality

While still a majority of black Christian folks don't support gay marriage, the number is lower than that of white evangelicals.
http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/historically-black-protestant/#views-about-same-sex-marriage
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Lol "less true". There is no such thing as less true. That is a RJK kind of comment right there.

I'll play your game though, if only 20% of inner city churches opposed gay rights that is still fucked up.
 
IamThunderbolt said:
I signed the Boston Declaration (and know a couple of the original signatures - one of whom graduated from Wake in 2000), although it wasn't much of a discussion in our community - mainly because a lot of what is says is a natural progression from our understanding of who were are called to be as followers of Jesus (which I believe is the ultimate outcome of taking the Bible seriously and authoritatively) and I only knew about it because I had seen it on a couple of friends' facebook pages. I didn't know it was a well-known statement, and I doubt many (any) in our community knew of its existence and therefore wasn't a topic of conversation/question

I was vocal against the Nashville Statement, although did not go as far as signing or uplifting the Denver [counter]statement, mainly because it wasn't so much of a statement as one person's response. We talked at length about this in our community because of its dismissive and destructive language that is antithetical to the teachings of Jesus and how he conducted himself. We have affirming and non-affirming members of our community, and were unanimous in our opposition to the Nashville Statement.
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Thanks for this detailed response (especially on the "islam" thread -- sorry for derailing, dudes). I only know about them because I listened to an "On Point" dedicated to discussing them a couple of months ago.
 
catamount, which cities are you referring to? I think there are churches within rural and urban areas who go either way on homosexuality.
 
We’ve had discussions similar to this before and I believe Wrangor and I actually agreed in that perhaps Christianity as intended is quite radical in the current age but it is boxed in by many as “normal.” That vibes I believe with what DF07 said earlier as well.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
Lol "less true". There is no such thing as less true. That is a RJK kind of comment right there.

I'll play your game though, if only 20% of inner city churches opposed gay rights that is still fucked up.
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You won't get an argument from me on that, but don't pretend that there is equivalent opposition from black Christians as white Christians.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
We’ve had discussions similar to this before and I believe Wrangor and I actually agreed in that perhaps Christianity as intended is quite radical in the current age but it is boxed in by many as “normal.” That vibes I believe with what DF07 said earlier as well.
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Jesus was quite literally a revolutionary. Christianity, at least as I interpret the texts and traditions, is extremely radical. That discipleship is uncomfortable and dangerous. It doesn't jive well with suburbia.
 
riscdeac said:
Jesus, Mary and Joseph!!! What?
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he's not far off.

That Jesus was a radical is clear - there was a reason he was killed. He radicalized the Jewish faith by both saying he was the fulfillment of the law as well as balking at the religious establishment's interpretation of the law. By having the central piece of his message being the "the Kingdom of God is at hand," as well accepting the moniker of King of the Jews, he was running afoul of the civic authorities as well.

That his message doesn't jive will with suburbia may be a matter of interpretation, but it's one I'm inclined to believe in. The values of suburbia are at least partially, comfort, safety, and "dong what's best for you and your family." I would argue (and would say that Paul would argue as well) that having these ideals runs contrary to the call Jesus placed on his disciples.


eta: that's not to say that you can't follow Christ in the suburbs. But I do believe that the suburbs create a culture where self-sacrifice for the good of others - which is the pattern of Jesus - is not the status quo (not to mention the history of redlining that created the suburbs which is probably contrary to the message of Christ as well).
 
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riscdeac said:
Guess you haven’t been to St. Anne’s.

You’re welcome to visit a parish in suburbia. You may learn something new.
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I'd love to, and probably would learn something, and I've visited and speak often with priests of our local suburban parish.

I'm not saying that all suburbs are refuge or haven from anything, but generally - people move to the suburbs to be near, but not in, a city. Generally, what they are seeking is comfort (space, larger house, less noise), safety (seeing the city as more dangerous (relative to the suburb)), or "dong what's best for you" (better schools, etc.). The cultural ethos of suburbs is one of self-interest.
 
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