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It's been 6 years....

PhDeac said:
Because most of those things happened after Dino was let go and Dino was only 6 months into an extension. The AD spin didn't make sense on its face.
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For Dino's firing? The justification for Dino's firing was 1-6 in the postseason with a roster full of NBA players... at first. The real culture spin bullshit came after [Redacted] was hired. The dirt started on the rape scandal in 2011 when police reports came out naming Teague and Clark while Dino was coaching. I mean, you have to understand that fans still pissed about the Cleveland State loss a year later would hear about that report and, whether they believed it was rape or not, buy into a culture argument. That timing isn't a stretch by any means.

The extension argument baffles me. The boards were pretty much in universal agreement when that extension was announced for only 2 years with undisclosed details (ie: it was super cheap) that it was a transparent attempt to maintain recruiting without really showing legit support for Dino. The Dino Gottago crowd was huge - only question was firing him after year 3 or year 4. Incessantly referencing a largely meaningless contract extension that at the time carried very little weight... that's some #narrative. As is painting the coaching world as "outraged" - it wasn't.
 
RChildress107 said:
And don't forget that the player accused of rape (a.k.a. the type of player we would no longer recruit after Dino) was the fucking team captain in [name redacted]'s first year here.
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Yes. Can't forget that. And let's not forgot this either. Yes, this is Wellman and [Redacted] standing with Ty Walker after he had been accused of campus theft.

 
DCDeac said:
For Dino's firing? The justification for Dino's firing was 1-6 in the postseason with a roster full of NBA players... at first. The real culture spin bullshit came after [name redacted] was hired. The dirt started on the rape scandal in 2011 when police reports came out naming Teague and Clark while Dino was coaching. I mean, you have to understand that fans still pissed about the Cleveland State loss a year later would hear about that report and, whether they believed it was rape or not, buy into a culture argument. That timing isn't a stretch by any means.

The extension argument baffles me. The boards were pretty much in universal agreement when that extension was announced for only 2 years with undisclosed details (ie: it was super cheap) that it was a transparent attempt to maintain recruiting without really showing legit support for Dino. The Dino Gottago crowd was huge - only question was firing him after year 3 or year 4. Incessantly referencing a largely meaningless contract extension that at the time carried very little weight... that's some #narrative. As is painting the coaching world as "outraged" - it wasn't.
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But what are you arguing? That the culture narrative was justified?
 
olddke said:
They were his recruits not what's his names.
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Wellman objected to the types of players Dino was recruiting so vehemently that he gave Dino a contract extension to ensure those recruits wouldn't be scared off, and then finally had enough so he fired Dino.

And then he had his new coach beg all of Dino's recruits (the type of players Wellman didn't want us to recruit) to still come to Wake. And then when some of Dino's recruits got in trouble, Wellman and his new coach let all of them stay, or asked them to stay after they got in trouble.

Makes perfect sense.
 
The report on the Today Show about the "rape scandal" was one of the worst pieces of one-sided slanted journalism that I have ever seen. I don't know what the whole story was but what was on the Today Show bordered on slander.

And the more time that passes, the more I am convinced that this was what got Dino fired and led to the demise of our program.
 
DCDeac said:
For Dino's firing? The justification for Dino's firing was 1-6 in the postseason with a roster full of NBA players... at first. The real culture spin bullshit came after [Redacted] was hired. The dirt started on the rape scandal in 2011 when police reports came out naming Teague and Clark while Dino was coaching. I mean, you have to understand that fans still pissed about the Cleveland State loss a year later would hear about that report and, whether they believed it was rape or not, buy into a culture argument. That timing isn't a stretch by any means.

The extension argument baffles me. The boards were pretty much in universal agreement when that extension was announced for only 2 years with undisclosed details (ie: it was super cheap) that it was a transparent attempt to maintain recruiting without really showing legit support for Dino. The Dino Gottago crowd was huge - only question was firing him after year 3 or year 4. Incessantly referencing a largely meaningless contract extension that at the time carried very little weight... that's some #narrative. As is painting the coaching world as "outraged" - it wasn't.
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See my post above to address your second paragraph.

As to the bold, those fans are fucking morons then and I'm ashamed that most of them went to Wake.

If I'm a casual Wake basketball fan and I see this report on the Today show in 2011 the following questions immediately pop into my head:

Why are we just hearing about this?

Were the players punished?

I could find the answers to those questions in about two minutes. If at any point I was told "that's the real reason Dino was fired", I would immediately ask "If Dino was fired for that, why weren't the players punished?"

It goes on and on and on. Each nonsensical answer leads to another question. When this nonsense was first spouted it took maybe twenty minutes to write a post completely refuting it. It's not fucking rocket science
 
does anybody believe what kvegas posts anymore?
 
PhDeac said:
But what are you arguing? That the culture narrative was justified?
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WTF? No, of course not. The culture argument is and always has been bullshit. As I've said repeatedly.

You said you found it "stunning" that the rank and file bought it.

The [Redacted] hire was the disaster. People are obsessed with spin and excuses and all this nonsense - the truth is going 1-6 in the postseason with Teague/Johnson/Aminu/Ish is a fireable offense, end of story. Then the hire was among the worst in ACC history and it was 100% on Wellman. Then losing, excuses, convenient news articles to shift blame, booster outrage at scandals, and spin spin spin. Did Dino lack control? Sure. Was that unique to Wake Forest? No. Did the contract extension figure into this in any way or should it have? No.

What I find strange is this search for some deeper scandal. Like it's any surprise that Wellman's ego would result in ridiculous spin. [Redacted] is gone, it trashed the program for his tenure and likely a couple recovery years. That's the price.
 
DCDeac said:
For Dino's firing? The justification for Dino's firing was 1-6 in the postseason with a roster full of NBA players... at first. The real culture spin bullshit came after [Redacted] was hired. The dirt started on the rape scandal in 2011 when police reports came out naming Teague and Clark while Dino was coaching. I mean, you have to understand that fans still pissed about the Cleveland State loss a year later would hear about that report and, whether they believed it was rape or not, buy into a culture argument. That timing isn't a stretch by any means.

The extension argument baffles me. The boards were pretty much in universal agreement when that extension was announced for only 2 years with undisclosed details (ie: it was super cheap) that it was a transparent attempt to maintain recruiting without really showing legit support for Dino. The Dino Gottago crowd was huge - only question was firing him after year 3 or year 4. Incessantly referencing a largely meaningless contract extension that at the time carried very little weight... that's some #narrative. As is painting the coaching world as "outraged" - it wasn't.
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Yeah it was. It's not like it was the first time Coaches have seen a guy get fired even after a relatively successful season for failing to meet expectations. Coaches get that it's a tough business.

I imagine they had the same reaction we did. Surprise but ultimately understanding that stuff like this happens. They probably assumed we were just making an upgrade. Then we hired [Redacted] and proceeded to smear Dino (and to some extent Skip). The coaching world did not like that one bit.
 
RChildress107 said:
Yeah it was. It's not like it was the first time Coaches have seen a guy get fired even after a relatively successful season for failing to meet expectations. Coaches get that it's a tough business.

I imagine they had the same reaction we did. Surprise but ultimately understanding that stuff like this happens. They probably assumed we were just making an upgrade. Then we hired [Redacted] and proceeded to smear Dino (and to some extent Skip). The coaching world did not like that one bit.
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That's bullshit. It was absolutely not outraged.
 
DCDeac said:
WTF? No, of course not. The culture argument is and always has been bullshit. As I've said repeatedly.

You said you found it "stunning" that the rank and file bought it.

The [Redacted] hire was the disaster. People are obsessed with spin and excuses and all this nonsense - the truth is going 1-6 in the postseason with Teague/Johnson/Aminu/Ish is a fireable offense, end of story. Then the hire was among the worst in ACC history and it was 100% on Wellman. Then losing, excuses, convenient news articles to shift blame, booster outrage at scandals, and spin spin spin. Did Dino lack control? Sure. Was that unique to Wake Forest? No. Did the contract extension figure into this in any way or should it have? No.

What I find strange is this search for some deeper scandal. Like it's any surprise that Wellman's ego would result in ridiculous spin. [Redacted] is gone, it trashed the program for his tenure and likely a couple recovery years. That's the price.
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If the real story is that Wellman actually decided to fire Dino for lack of postseason success (which was incredibly short-sighted when he likely would have missed the postseason entirely the next year), waited to fire him until after the coaching carousel was in full swing, and then made the worst hire in college basketball history then it truly is stunning that the rank and file Wake Basketball fans bought the culture crap.

Any other fanbase would have called for Wellman's head (and gotten it) for what proved to be three progressively worse decisions in April 2010. The culture spin never made any fucking sense and it's baffling to me that Wellman is still able to use that as a shield for his incompetence.
 
RChildress107 said:
You represent the coaching world? You coach D1 basketball?
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Had the chance to speak and email with a number of ESPN writers at the time due to family connections. Also lucked into a sit down with Jay Bilas about it. I'm not suggesting coaches were supportive of firing him after only three seasons - particularly with the total wins he put up - but let's just say most coaches didn't think Dino Gaudio was deserving of a job like Wake, and when you have talent like he did you should be talking ACC finals and Sweet 16's, not 1 postseason win. The reaction word most used was "surprising" but it's not like it scared off potential coaching replacements.

Describing the coaching world as outraged is simply false.
 
PhDeac said:
Yes. Can't forget that. And let's not forgot this either. Yes, this is Wellman and [Redacted] standing with Ty Walker after he had been accused of campus theft.

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I'll be glad when that frame holds the number 0. CMM has done more damage to this program than Ty Walker ever did.
 
I agree with DC on this. Whatever the secret reason might have been the cause given was that we got to March but could never win in March. Wellman even had stats to support this at the press conference announcing the firing. I was thrilled because I absolutely bought into the fact that for the first time Wake was going all in on competing for championships. Hey we fired a guy who took us to the post season because thats not going to cut it at Wake anymore...sweet jesus thats music to my ears!

What came next shook the very foundation of our program, school and leadership. Ron Wellman told me he was going to make us great again and he lied to us all. The lies still continue 6 years later. Once RW saw how much he screwed up with the Buzz hire he then trotted out the culture, getting the right kids thing because that appealed to the big donors.

This entire thing was a bigger cover up/scam than Watergate. The college basketball landscape has changed in the past 6 years.

We might never be good again
 
wtf22fan said:
I'll be glad when that frame holds the number 0. CMM has done more damage to this program than Ty Walker ever did.
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Yes, I've been waiting for a wfu22fan parody. Parody of a parody????
 
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PhDeac said:
Yes. Can't forget that. And let's not forgot this either. Yes, this is Wellman and [Redacted] standing with Ty Walker after he had been accused of campus theft.

Click to expand...

I love that most every fan is sitting down and the ones who are standing are crossing their arms or have their hands in their pockets. We've fallen so far.
 
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