Jeter to retire after 2014 season

[deacphan]

But the difference is that while the entire league played under the same circumstances with integration, mound height, expansion, etc., the entire league did not play under the same circumstances with juicing. If McGuire goes deep off of LaTroy Hawkins because McGwire is juicing and Hawkins isn't, then that is an advantage to McGwire. The mound height was the same for everyone. Similarly, if Jeter is clean but putting up numbers against McGwire and Bonds, then that is a disadvantage to Jeter. Especially at the SS and other traditional nonpower positions, guys like Jeter and Vizquel had numbers overshadowed by juicers like Tejada and ARod. Hell, if you take Bernie Williams' numbers in a vacuum without the juiced OFs of his day that skewed the standard, would he be HOF?

We don't know who used steroids or greenies. there's only a witch hunt for one.

 

[SkinsNDeacs]

We don't know who used steroids or greenies. there's only a witch hunt for one.

That and the benefits of steroids have been vastly exaggerated. No one wants to talk about expansion and shrinking ballparks. IT HAS TO BE THE JUICE!1!1!!!!!

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

We don't know who used steroids or greenies. there's only a witch hunt for one.

We have a pretty good idea of who used steroids. With respect to greenies, are you seriously equating the effects of greenies with those of anabolic steroids as compared to a non-user?

 

[deacphan]

yup. there were a lot of insane pitching and hitting seasons in the around the turn of the 20th century. there were 4 new teams adding 100 minor leaguers to active rosters at a time. if you look at standard deviation trends around expansions you always see spikes where the greats post insane seasons near expansion and the shitty players post extreme seasons also.

 

[deacphan]

We have a pretty good idea of who used steroids. With respect to greenies, are you seriously equating the effects of greenies with those of anabolic steroids as compared to a non-user?

how do we have "a good idea of who used steroids?" i have no idea how to quantify how much greenies or steroids helped ballplayers. hell until the 80s players thought lifting HURT their game. trying to sort out the effects of steroids from other effects on the league are damn near impossible.