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Keyshawn Woods Leaving Basketball Program

Wrangor said:
Agreed. But full disclosure that was before Moore and Crawford stayed in the draft (they may not have even declared at that point). I still don't think the Woods lost hurt us at all. Without Crawford and Moore (and Mitchell) we weren't going to be all that good anyway. I would rather Mucius and Wright Jr. be getting those minutes than Keyshawn.
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undepheated lol
 
knowell said:
I like Wrangor but he has been on a long losing streak with regards to posting on these boards. His judgement has been a bit off lately.
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Meh, I liked the shot Wake took on Manning, and wanted him to improve as a coach to keep up with where he was on the recruiting trail. The reality is that if he was even a mediocre floor coach we would have won 18 games last year, and the 19 recruiting class would be VERY good. But you can't crap the bed like he has and expect it to not hurt recruiting. I saw the rational behind taking a shot at Manning, but he simply doesn't cut it on the bench. I think recruiting wise he would have been top notch, but eventually you have to make players trust you can win a game for them for the bench, and it is clear he can't do that. Doesn't matter how good your pitch is to a player, you still have to win.
 
Strickland33 said:
undepheated lol
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Perhaps you missed 'Agreed'. Ohio State is clearly better. I made a prediction and a lot changed from when I made the prediction and when the season started. It happens. I was wrong.
 
The Woods loss hurt us a lot. We currently have one player who can create their own offense consistently (Childress) and two who can do so in situations favorable to their skill set (Hoard and Wright).

I sat and watched us lose to Houston Baptist. Regardless of how you feel about getting Wright and Mucius minutes (and whether you believe tanking is the right solution to our program's woes), losing a high-ish IQ veteran who can shoot and create is a major loss.

It also hampers the development of guys who don't have the skills to shoulder the load that our lack of depth is asking them to shoulder. You're a former coach. I just find it really hard to believe that you can't see how losing Woods is a big loss.
 
Strickland33 said:
The Woods loss hurt us a lot. We currently have one player who can create their own offense consistently (Childress) and two who can do so in situations favorable to their skill set (Hoard and Wright).

I sat and watched us lose to Houston Baptist. Regardless of how you feel about getting Wright and Mucius minutes (and whether you believe tanking is the right solution to our program's woes), losing a high-ish IQ veteran who can shoot and create is a major loss.

It also hampers the development of guys who don't have the skills to shoulder the load that our lack of depth is asking them to shoulder. You're a former coach. I just find it really hard to believe that you can't see how losing Woods is a big loss.
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Woods was a miserable defender. I mean grade F defender. Obviously he would help and might even get us a win or two because of his shooting, but he wouldn't have made any significant impact on the trajectory of this team, and so I would rather those minutes go to younger players. Additionally, with the loss of Crawford and Moore, its clear this team isn't going anywhere, and thus I would like to see us move on from Manning. You don't ever want your team to lose, but a double benefit of giving our young guns some more playing time, and making it more clear that we need to go a different direction isn't the worst result. Lastly there was all sorts of smoke about Woods being a locker room problem. You can clearly put some of that (if not all) of that blame on Manning, but I would rather not have a guy like that in with a new crop of young players.

The reality is the die was cast on this season when Crawford and Moore declared. You can't lose two seniors, who both play key positions, like we did without it crushing the following seasons' hopes. I was ok with Woods not coming back when he declared he was leaving, because I didn't think there would be a massive role for him. I thought Crawford, Chill, Brown were all clearly better, and I liked what I knew about Mucius and Wright. I am ok with Woods not being here now not because he wouldn't play (clearly he would be playing), but because I don't think he makes any sort of meaningful difference on a team like this that has so many holes already. Woods was already a massive defensive problem, and any offense he gave he often gave right back on the other end.

Sorry - he doesn't move the needle for me. I miss Mitchell a lot, and I miss Crawford and Moore a ton...Woods is a mediocre college player imo. I am clearly ready to admit that Ohio State is a lot better than Wake Forest, and that Woods is going to play a much more meaningful 5th year as a Buckeye than he would have as a Deacon, and thus he probably made a good move for his professional career post college. But I don't really miss him.
 
Strickland33 said:
This may be a controversial take, but we'll never be good again as long as Randolph Childress is on our staff. Childress may be a good assistant coach, but that whole situation just reeks of the rotting flesh of the [Redacted] years and he will always be a human shield to deflect any notion of accountability from the fan base.

We're probably 5 years away from being good again after we fire Danny Manning. Whoever comes in will have to build up recruiting relationships from scratch (Manning's shortcuts have yielded absolutely nothing outside of a murder charge) and our competition gets better every year.
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PhDeac said:
Our #1 assistant coach is still in his first coaching job. Ever. Let that sink in. He’s my favorite player of all time but there’s no way he should have been hired and promoted.
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These might be the best takes on this whole thread. I think that Manning's incompetence with Chill's inexperience have been an absolute recipe for disaster.
 
Wrangor said:
Meh, I liked the shot Wake took on Manning, and wanted him to improve as a coach to keep up with where he was on the recruiting trail. The reality is that if he was even a mediocre floor coach we would have won 18 games last year, and the 19 recruiting class would be VERY good. But you can't crap the bed like he has and expect it to not hurt recruiting. I saw the rational behind taking a shot at Manning, but he simply doesn't cut it on the bench. I think recruiting wise he would have been top notch, but eventually you have to make players trust you can win a game for them for the bench, and it is clear he can't do that. Doesn't matter how good your pitch is to a player, you still have to win.
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This.
 
As much as Wellman has destroyed the program through his last two HC hires, his meddling with the assistant coaches may have played as a big of a role. A key factor in selecting [] was that he agreed to keep the prior staff's assistants in place; huge red flag. Refusing to learn from that disaster, have no doubt that Wellman worked to keep Chill on DM's staff.
 
Wrangor said:
Woods was a miserable defender. I mean grade F defender. Obviously he would help and might even get us a win or two because of his shooting, but he wouldn't have made any significant impact on the trajectory of this team, and so I would rather those minutes go to younger players. Additionally, with the loss of Crawford and Moore, its clear this team isn't going anywhere, and thus I would like to see us move on from Manning. You don't ever want your team to lose, but a double benefit of giving our young guns some more playing time, and making it more clear that we need to go a different direction isn't the worst result. Lastly there was all sorts of smoke about Woods being a locker room problem. You can clearly put some of that (if not all) of that blame on Manning, but I would rather not have a guy like that in with a new crop of young players.

The reality is the die was cast on this season when Crawford and Moore declared. You can't lose two seniors, who both play key positions, like we did without it crushing the following seasons' hopes. I was ok with Woods not coming back when he declared he was leaving, because I didn't think there would be a massive role for him. I thought Crawford, Chill, Brown were all clearly better, and I liked what I knew about Mucius and Wright. I am ok with Woods not being here now not because he wouldn't play (clearly he would be playing), but because I don't think he makes any sort of meaningful difference on a team like this that has so many holes already. Woods was already a massive defensive problem, and any offense he gave he often gave right back on the other end.

Sorry - he doesn't move the needle for me. I miss Mitchell a lot, and I miss Crawford and Moore a ton...Woods is a mediocre college player imo. I am clearly ready to admit that Ohio State is a lot better than Wake Forest, and that Woods is going to play a much more meaningful 5th year as a Buckeye than he would have as a Deacon, and thus he probably made a good move for his professional career post college. But I don't really miss him.
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I still disagree, but I understand your take a lot more clearly now. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Pilchard said:
As much as Wellman has destroyed the program through his last two HC hires, his meddling with the assistant coaches may have played as a big of a role. A key factor in selecting [] was that he agreed to keep the prior staff's assistants in place; huge red flag. Refusing to learn from that disaster, have no doubt that Wellman worked to keep Chill on DM's staff.
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That was a point that I made prior to the hiring of Manning. I love Chill, but you have to let a head coach manage his staff. Unlike what most people think, coaching a college basketball team is REALLY difficult (at least in my opinion). There are a small number of coaches that can handle the pressure, have the skills to enact their vision, know enough about basketball to create a great scheme, and are dynamic enough on the recruiting trail to bring in the players that are needed. Picking assistants for a HC is a terrible move for an AD. I can appreciate that Wellman has done a lot of great things in our other sports, but he has killed out most beloved program. Would love to see us replace him first, and let a new AD make his mark with a basketball selection.
 
Wrangor said:
Meh, I liked the shot Wake took on Manning, and wanted him to improve as a coach to keep up with where he was on the recruiting trail. The reality is that if he was even a mediocre floor coach we would have won 18 games last year, and the 19 recruiting class would be VERY good. But you can't crap the bed like he has and expect it to not hurt recruiting. I saw the rational behind taking a shot at Manning, but he simply doesn't cut it on the bench. I think recruiting wise he would have been top notch, but eventually you have to make players trust you can win a game for them for the bench, and it is clear he can't do that. Doesn't matter how good your pitch is to a player, you still have to win.
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Losing streak over. A winning take.
 
Wrangor said:
Woods was a miserable defender. I mean grade F defender. Obviously he would help and might even get us a win or two because of his shooting, but he wouldn't have made any significant impact on the trajectory of this team, and so I would rather those minutes go to younger players. Additionally, with the loss of Crawford and Moore, its clear this team isn't going anywhere, and thus I would like to see us move on from Manning. You don't ever want your team to lose, but a double benefit of giving our young guns some more playing time, and making it more clear that we need to go a different direction isn't the worst result. Lastly there was all sorts of smoke about Woods being a locker room problem. You can clearly put some of that (if not all) of that blame on Manning, but I would rather not have a guy like that in with a new crop of young players.

The reality is the die was cast on this season when Crawford and Moore declared. You can't lose two seniors, who both play key positions, like we did without it crushing the following seasons' hopes. I was ok with Woods not coming back when he declared he was leaving, because I didn't think there would be a massive role for him. I thought Crawford, Chill, Brown were all clearly better, and I liked what I knew about Mucius and Wright. I am ok with Woods not being here now not because he wouldn't play (clearly he would be playing), but because I don't think he makes any sort of meaningful difference on a team like this that has so many holes already. Woods was already a massive defensive problem, and any offense he gave he often gave right back on the other end.

Sorry - he doesn't move the needle for me. I miss Mitchell a lot, and I miss Crawford and Moore a ton...Woods is a mediocre college player imo. I am clearly ready to admit that Ohio State is a lot better than Wake Forest, and that Woods is going to play a much more meaningful 5th year as a Buckeye than he would have as a Deacon, and thus he probably made a good move for his professional career post college. But I don't really miss him.
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I agree that Woods was not a good defender but I did not see him as appreciably worse than anyone else on the team. I think Manning's ability to teach defensive schemes are more the problem.
 
knowell said:
I agree that Woods was not a good defender but I did not see him as appreciably worse than anyone else on the team. I think Manning's ability to teach defensive schemes are more the problem.
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Woods was miserable. Partly because he is slow and partly because he was partially hurt. But he couldn’t keep anyone in front of him and he was never in the proper help position.

Contrast him with a Brandon Childress and it wasn’t even close. Manning’s defensive schemes sucked. Woods made them suckier.

I still can’t figure out how we can be so late in our rotations. The guys are going to the right spots they are just always 2 steps too late.
 
wrangor will always default to defending coaches. i understand why, but it’s a huge blind spot.
 
Looking forward to watching ex GW coach Holtmann, ex all ACC Academic Deac Woods, and the Buckeyes play some good basketball against the Orange tonite.
 
Keyshawn WS/40 minutes by year:

14-15 (UNCC): .090
16-17 (WF): .117
17-18 (WF): .098
18-19 (OSU): .209
 
knowell said:
I agree that Woods was not a good defender but I did not see him as appreciably worse than anyone else on the team. I think Manning's ability to teach defensive schemes are more the problem.
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Woods is limited a little by his lateral quickness, but he looked good last night on D. He was talking and pointing to get other players in the right spot.
 
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