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Law School is a sham

My Fiance went to CharlestonSOL and consequently has a ton of friends that went there too.
Based on my experience I would say about 40-50% of the people she talks about didn't pass the bar on the first try (she did luckily) and there are at least a few people (who she claims did well in school) who failed 3 times. That's ridiculous to me. I mean, I know the bar isn't supposed to be easy, but if you went to law school, studied for the bar, you should pass. Isn't wake's pass rate like 80-something% (I could be wrong that).
That being said, I think most, if not all the people that went to CSOL know it's not a top rate school, and most (my fiance included) picked it because it was in Charleston and Charleston is awesome, but they all very much hate the potential infilaw deal.
Apparently the infilaw strategy is to offer generous scholarships, but to maintain your scholarship you have to keep a 3.0 or something, but they make it next to impossible to maintain a 3.0 (or whatever the threshold is) so kids think they're getting a good deal and the vast majority end up losing their scholarship
 
RidingDeac said:
Charleston Law was smart and invested a lot in having a great career services department. However, that only worked for so long. As a USC Law student, we are getting a lot more clerkships this year than in the last few years. Judges have been upset that they had to keep firing law clerks from Charleston Law because they weren't passing the bar on the second try.
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Are there that many Charleston Law kids clerking in SoCal?
 
Baconwfu said:
My Fiance went to CharlestonSOL and consequently has a ton of friends that went there too.
Based on my experience I would say about 40-50% of the people she talks about didn't pass the bar on the first try (she did luckily) and there are at least a few people (who she claims did well in school) who failed 3 times. That's ridiculous to me. I mean, I know the bar isn't supposed to be easy, but if you went to law school, studied for the bar, you should pass. Isn't wake's pass rate like 80-something% (I could be wrong that).
That being said, I think most, if not all the people that went to CSOL know it's not a top rate school, and most (my fiance included) picked it because it was in Charleston and Charleston is awesome, but they all very much hate the potential infilaw deal.
Apparently the infilaw strategy is to offer generous scholarships, but to maintain your scholarship you have to keep a 3.0 or something, but they make it next to impossible to maintain a 3.0 (or whatever the threshold is) so kids think they're getting a good deal and the vast majority end up losing their scholarship
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the OVERALL passage rate for first-timers is like 80%

its the dumbfucks that take it over and over again and keep failing that skew the stats

http://www.ncbex.org/assets/media_files/Bar-Examiner/articles/2013/8201132012statistics.pdf
 
45 year old lady next to me at the bar exam was on her fifth try.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
 
Would it be stupid to take the bar for a random state, say Colorado, and just move there? Just saw some terrible stats for NC and TN as far as oversaturation
 
Manifest Destiny said:
Would it be stupid to take the bar for a random state, say Colorado, and just move there? Just saw some terrible stats for NC and TN as far as oversaturation
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colorado seems like a good target

skiing, healthiest state, weed

what's not to love?
 
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Manifest Destiny said:
Would it be stupid to take the bar for a random state, say Colorado, and just move there? Just saw some terrible stats for NC and TN as far as oversaturation
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I wouldn't do it. First, let me say I have no idea bout your personal situation, Manifest, and my analysis is not directed at you, just at your question.

My guess is that someone pondering doing what you have suggested is toward the bottom of their graduating class, hence why they can't find a job. People in the bottom of their law school class tend to get hired based on connections and networking more than anything. In general a person is less likely to have connections in a "random state." Thus it seems risky to me to go to a "random state" and seek employment based on what will likely be a less than stellar resume.

Around my law school right now the only people breathing easy are well connected folks in the top half of the class. Those who are well connected but with low grades are on edge, and those who are in the bottom half of the class with very few connections have just given up (or are too stupid to realize how fucked they are).
 
richis711 said:
I wouldn't do it. First, let me say I have no idea bout your personal situation, Manifest, and my analysis is not directed at you, just at your question.

My guess is that someone pondering doing what you have suggested is toward the bottom of their graduating class, hence why they can't find a job. People in the bottom of their law school class tend to get hired based on connections and networking more than anything. In general a person is less likely to have connections in a "random state." Thus it seems risky to me to go to a "random state" and seek employment based on what will likely be a less than stellar resume.

Around my law school right now the only people breathing easy are well connected folks in the top half of the class. Those who are well connected but with low grades are on edge, and those who are in the bottom half of the class with very few connections have just given up (or are too stupid to realize how fucked they are).
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This seems like an accurate assessment. Im in the middle of my class with a few connections. Worried bc I havent been abel to land a law related job for the summer as of yet. Interviewed a few places but have no heard back. If I can give myself any credit, it would be that I already see the writing on the wall that many fail to observe until the last semester of their 3L year.
 
I started reading this thread today and most of this stuff should be required reading before thinking about law school. I think now that the law bubble has burst, there is a pretty nice decline in people testing. That's huge because a lot of these TTT schools like Charlotte and NCCU need to shut down. Giving someone with a <150 LSAT score the option of taking 250k in loans for a 20% chance at a 35k/year job is laughable.

Websites like Lawschooltransparency.com have helped clear up the bull shit employment and compensation statistics some of these schools are spouting out. I know it was something unused before deciding in law school. I spent 2 years after undergrad studying for the LSAT and working as a paralegal before deciding it is really what I want to do. I think that's important, like many people have said it's insane to take out this kinda cash for something YOU DONT EVEN KNOW YOU WANT TO DO.
 
TopHat said:
I started reading this thread today and most of this stuff should be required reading before thinking about law school. I think now that the law bubble has burst, there is a pretty nice decline in people testing. That's huge because a lot of these TTT schools like Charlotte and NCCU need to shut down. Giving someone with a <150 LSAT score the option of taking 250k in loans for a 20% chance at a 35k/year job is laughable.

Websites like Lawschooltransparency.com have helped clear up the bull shit employment and compensation statistics some of these schools are spouting out. I know it was something unused before deciding in law school. I spent 2 years after undergrad studying for the LSAT and working as a paralegal before deciding it is really what I want to do. I think that's important, like many people have said it's insane to take out this kinda cash for something YOU DONT EVEN KNOW YOU WANT TO DO.
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That should be a required minimum. 155 maybe even better. No student allowed to attend law school with anything under that.

Richis pretty much nailed the assessment with his post. I'm baffled by the amount of people who cannot get a job after law school but thing hanging a shingle is a good option without any experience. There's a reason no one is hiring you.
 
Fayettenam said:
That should be a required minimum. 155 maybe even better. No student allowed to attend law school with anything under that.

Richis pretty much nailed the assessment with his post. I'm baffled by the amount of people who cannot get a job after law school but thing hanging a shingle is a good option without any experience. There's a reason no one is hiring you.
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I don't think hanging a shingle is an ideal option but I also don't think it's terrible for a very small amount of people. The situation that I don't see a problem with is for someone who graduated with little to no debt <25k and wants to live in a small town with a low COL.

People shouldn't be looking at it like "well shit I don't have any connections but I want to go law school! I don't care if it's $100k, I could always start my own firm!"

That is insane.
 
I have one friend (2nd semester 3L) who has only applied for about 5 jobs this year. (4 of them she already knows she didn't get. Only one remaining.) She keeps assuming that the place she works now will hire her. But in order for that to happen, one attorney has to leave and she would have to pass the interview process. And they normally require 3-5 years of experience minimum. It boggles my mind. (Also- she's not taking a bar prep class. She's going to "teach it to herself.")
 
RidingDeac said:
I have one friend (2nd semester 3L) who has only applied for about 5 jobs this year. (4 of them she already knows she didn't get. Only one remaining.) She keeps assuming that the place she works now will hire her. But in order for that to happen, one attorney has to leave and she would have to pass the interview process. And they normally require 3-5 years of experience minimum. It boggles my mind. (Also- she's not taking a bar prep class. She's going to "teach it to herself.")
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All of that is pretty par for the course except the bar prep stuff. She's an idiot, gotta do the prep classes.
 
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Self-study is easy if you're reasonably intelligent and have the least bit of self-discipline.
 
OldGoldBeard said:
Self-study is easy if you're reasonably intelligent and have the least bit of self-discipline.
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For the Bar Exam?

I can understand the idea behind self study and I know some folks in LS that could handle it but the vast majority, 90%, couldn't handle it.
 
Yes, for the bar exam. It's cake, and (like Riding's friend, most likely) I was in a 3-day state.
 
There was a girl in one of my senior poli sci classes at Wake who got a 141 the first time she took the LSAT and was convinced that she would be the greatest attorney of all-time.

I'm pretty much scared shitless I won't get a job as an attorney, but at the same time I'm almost equally, if not moreso, interested in policy work so I'm sure I'll find a job somewhere in a sector I'm interested in.

Who knows though? C'est la vie.
 
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