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MBB Game 26: Miami Hurricanes @ LJVM - Saturday 3 pm - Bally

Also, nobody is calling out the obvious.

Monsanto took his headband off in the 2H.

Manman squared was gone.

How many did Damari have after the break?
 
When a team gets outscored 19-0 from points off turnovers it will lose. Obvious. Wake turnovers are nothing new but today it cost them a win.

Miami did a great job eliminating the skip pass and turned those steals into points. Miami coaching W.

Very little ball movement by Wake on offense leads to too much isolation and Miami doubles, traps and gets a TO. More easy points. When the Deacs don't move the ball on offense they aren't efficient on offense.

The rest of the problems, especially on defense, seem to have the same cause. It was a factor in both losses to Miami, to Duke, to Louisville and to LSU. Quicks, especially on the wing. McGusty and Wong are too quick to be consistently defended by Wake. Moore and Miller aren't shabby either. They have elite quickness. They got past their defender and to the hoop before the D could respond. When Wake was able to respond the D was in scramble mode and someone was open for Louisville. Jake fouled out trying to compensate and he has to be on the court to win against top teams. Their quickness on D can prevent penetration and create turnovers. Quicks and speed separate a lot of the haves from the have nots. We've faced it 4 or 5 times with poor results. Sometimes an opponent has a quality your team can't match. Elite quickness appears to be our kryptonite.
 
As the basketball season wears on there are several truths...

1) The 2021-22 Deacs are exceeding all expectations so far as wins/losses and are fun to watch most nights

2) The ACC is way down as a conference, and most teams except Duke and ND are up and down nightly

3) Those who claim Wake Forest is a top 25 team are wrong at the moment. We don't have a quality win on our ledger except MAYBE the win in Charlottesville. We should have won today v Miami but we're not good enough. Coach blamed himself in the post game for not preparing the team. We have 5 out of 7 main rotation being Sr's or grads. There's no excuse this late in the season from a coaching or players standpoint. Until we show consistent quality of effort, concentration, and execution we're still a long way from a solid top 25 squad. Maybe the true talent level is only good enough to beat the weak teams? I dunno. Looking ahead it's concerning that we're losing every starter except LaRavia and Monsanto next season. If our freshmen were good enough they'd be getting more minutes in conference play. 2022-23 is gonna be difficult to live up to the success of this season and we'll be back to earth until recruiting quality fills the pipeline.

This is a good year for us based on the past 10-12 years. But building on it seems unlikely for another couple of years. I like Forbes but he is right when he proclaims we've done NOTHING yet.
 
Fusiondad10 said:
As the basketball season wears on there are several truths...

1) The 2021-22 Deacs are exceeding all expectations so far as wins/losses and are fun to watch most nights

2) The ACC is way down as a conference, and most teams except Duke and ND are up and down nightly

3) Those who claim Wake Forest is a top 25 team are wrong at the moment. We don't have a quality win on our ledger except MAYBE the win in Charlottesville. We should have won today v Miami but we're not good enough. Coach blamed himself in the post game for not preparing the team. We have 5 out of 7 main rotation being Sr's or grads. There's no excuse this late in the season from a coaching or players standpoint. Until we show consistent quality of effort, concentration, and execution we're still a long way from a solid top 25 squad. Maybe the true talent level is only good enough to beat the weak teams? I dunno. Looking ahead it's concerning that we're losing every starter except LaRavia and Monsanto next season. If our freshmen were good enough they'd be getting more minutes in conference play. 2022-23 is gonna be difficult to live up to the success of this season and we'll be back to earth until recruiting quality fills the pipeline.

This is a good year for us based on the past 10-12 years. But building on it seems unlikely for another couple of years. I like Forbes but he is right when he proclaims we've done NOTHING yet.
Click to expand...

Your point #3 is inaccurate. First, Monsanto isn’t a starter but, aside from that, Williamson, Walton, and Mucius all have the possibility of returning. If you’re assuming Jake returns then you should assume that all of them also return.
 
ManMan giveth and ManMan taketh away.

Love the joy he usually plays with. Something seemed off yesterday. There was a ton of forced iso and a lack of off ball movement. Many of the turnovers seemed like passes you can make with off ball movement and swinging for the best shot. Standing still waiting for player x to dribble around before forcing a shot or pass into traffic cost 19 points. Not going to beat good teams like that.
 
Can anyone describe more what happened with Jake? How did he foul out?

Wild to me that some of his best games have been against big, athletic teams. He wrecked FSU (twice) and Carolina. He should feast against undersized teams like Miami. He just had that bit of inconsistency from game to game that is holding him back from being elite. We need him to cook against Duke and ND especially.

I’ve just accepted this team has a high TO rate due to style of play. That’s not going to change at this point of the season. Think it’s been masked a bit with good defense. Miami has been one of the few teams to score at high percentages against us.

Disappointing we couldn’t take advantage of some serious mismatches we should have with them.
 
Sucks to lose a game because you "share the ball" so much with the other team. :(
 
PaddyWF said:
Can anyone describe more what happened with Jake? How did he foul out?

Wild to me that some of his best games have been against big, athletic teams. He wrecked FSU (twice) and Carolina. He should feast against undersized teams like Miami. He just had that bit of inconsistency from game to game that is holding him back from being elite. We need him to cook against Duke and ND especially.

I’ve just accepted this team has a high TO rate due to style of play. That’s not going to change at this point of the season. Think it’s been masked a bit with good defense. Miami has been one of the few teams to score at high percentages against us.

Disappointing we couldn’t take advantage of some serious mismatches we should have with them.
Click to expand...

Now, my memory is crap, but as for Jake, his 4th and 5th were IMO, blown assignments. Sy didn't cover the lane (WTH??) and their big just drove down the wide-open middle and Jake tried to make the block. On the 5th, it was another blow by that rimmed out but Jake fouled on the follow shot. One of his other fouls was a touch foul that should never have been called...

Again, I love that we are so active with our hands and getting rebounds, but teams are just running downhill on us on the dribble drive. Even State was blowing by the team. Seabron was attacking at will and we were lucky that Smith and Hellems had off nights and fouled out. We have to do something to give other teams a new look. Go to a zone, sag the bigs, give more help, etc.
 
PaddyWF said:
Can anyone describe more what happened with Jake? How did he foul out?

Wild to me that some of his best games have been against big, athletic teams. He wrecked FSU (twice) and Carolina. He should feast against undersized teams like Miami. He just had that bit of inconsistency from game to game that is holding him back from being elite. We need him to cook against Duke and ND especially.

I’ve just accepted this team has a high TO rate due to style of play. That’s not going to change at this point of the season. Think it’s been masked a bit with good defense. Miami has been one of the few teams to score at high percentages against us.

Disappointing we couldn’t take advantage of some serious mismatches we should have with them.
Click to expand...

While we have some LaMelo Ball style system turnovers that are simply a product of playing completely wide open and trying to make a spectacular play, we also have way too many that are just basic carelessness with the ball and lazy passes. Williams especially just gets repeatedly ripped in the most basic of dribbles and passes. It is really weak and a huge fundamental flaw for an otherwise very good player. It is like they need to give him the high school football fumbling treatment of carrying the ball around campus all day every day and whenever someone sees him they try to knock it out of his hands.
 
Twice we had situations where someone did not know who they were guarding and led to an easy score and also to one of Jake’s fouls. Was hard to tell who missed their assignments but certainly those two plays made a difference in the game. Amazing that this game was as close as it was with the missed free throws and 19-0 points off turnovers margin. Speaks to the strengths that the team has that they could have just as easily won this game even though they played so poorly in the second half.
 
turnovers and poor offense lost the game alot more than defense.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
While we have some LaMelo Ball style system turnovers that are simply a product of playing completely wide open and trying to make a spectacular play, we also have way too many that are just basic carelessness with the ball and lazy passes. Williams especially just gets repeatedly ripped in the most basic of dribbles and passes. It is really weak and a huge fundamental flaw for an otherwise very good player. It is like they need to give him the high school football fumbling treatment of carrying the ball around campus all day every day and whenever someone sees him they try to knock it out of his hands.
Click to expand...

Manman was very careless- 7 turnovers- and did not recognize the trap until he was about to get the ball ripped. Too many passes were telegraphed. Just seemed sloppy/careless. Shame to lose this one at home
 
deaconson said:
ManMan giveth and ManMan taketh away.

Love the joy he usually plays with. Something seemed off yesterday. There was a ton of forced iso and a lack of off ball movement. Many of the turnovers seemed like passes you can make with off ball movement and swinging for the best shot. Standing still waiting for player x to dribble around before forcing a shot or pass into traffic cost 19 points. Not going to beat good teams like that.
Click to expand...

I’d like to think these issues would have been corrected mid-game. Why continue resorting to the Willams iso when our post players were having their way isolated inside when we went to them? Also disappointed we didn’t change defenses when our perimeter players were getting dominated off the dribble.
 
Miami’s season average Pts/Poss = 1.11
We held them to: 1.13

Wakes season average Pts/Poss = 1.10
We scored: 1.04

So the problem was more our offense and turnovers than our defense, because based on their number of possessions they only scored 1.3 more points than they normally would, where our offense scored 4 less points than we normally would.
 
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