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MBB Game 5: LMU Lions Sunday 2:30 pm - CBSN

deac03 said:
This is the latest that a non conference November loss has stayed with me and really bothered me. At work today and just catch a wave of anger and frustration and just had to bite my lip and clench my fists. An absolute embarrassment of a loss. Zero positives to take away. How it took us so long to realize that we could have whatever we wanted inside was truly disheartening. We stopped shooting 3s. Penetrated and dominated. Then pissed and shit all over ourselves.
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It’s so tough because we had the game completely wrapped up.

We played a really good second half, until we didn’t (I know, [Redacted] logic). We had outscored them by 18 in the second half.

I liked going to Cam at the end. Appleby wasn’t 100% and he had turned it over 3 straight possessions. Williamson was out. I think Cam was our best option to have the ball in his hands at the end. He had a great three point play toward the end of OT.
 
Shake said:
its just year 2 but we’re already pretty sure that there will be no NCAA bid as we have no margin for error. I’ve been around for awhile and fell in love with Wake basketball as a kid watching CD. College basketball is all about making the dance now and its hard to recover from what Wellman and Manning did to the program. I don’t count Manning’s play in game so for me this will be 12 years without a bid. I like Forbes a lot but the college game, coaching, recruiting and promotion raced by us over the last 10 years. I once felt the minimum bar was what GDO gave us, now I’m not sure we even get back to the upper half of a weak conference. I suspect there are others like me and it’s reflected in our attendance. Never thought the Wake sport I’d be most excited about would be football.
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Good post. The landscape has completely changed over the last 10 years and going all the way back to Skip's death. There's much less advantage to being an ACC program. There are more power conference teams now than 15 years ago. And mid-majors get more spots than they used to. It's a really crowded landscape with less margin of error for mediocre or bad programs like Wake.

The 2009-10 team was the last team to make it to the actual first round. That team was at #9 seed at 20-11 (9-7). An ACC team can't make it with that record nowadays.
 
The Deacons showed a lot of dumb the last two minutes. That can happen when your team leader for the past two years is unable to play. Williamson has his flaws but it is rarely in the last couple of minutes protecting a lead. He wants the ball, realizes when the biggest adversary is the clock and he is money at the line late.
 
Shake said:
its just year 2 but we’re already pretty sure that there will be no NCAA bid as we have no margin for error. I’ve been around for awhile and fell in love with Wake basketball as a kid watching CD. College basketball is all about making the dance now and its hard to recover from what Wellman and Manning did to the program. I don’t count Manning’s play in game so for me this will be 12 years without a bid. I like Forbes a lot but the college game, coaching, recruiting and promotion raced by us over the last 10 years. I once felt the minimum bar was what GDO gave us, now I’m not sure we even get back to the upper half of a weak conference. I suspect there are others like me and it’s reflected in our attendance. Never thought the Wake sport I’d be most excited about would be football.
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This is where I am at. We are almost certainly not making the tourney this season, and what outlook do we have on Year 4 in the Forbes era? He is competent and keeping us competitive after a lost decade. I don't feel confident we are closer to playing for ACC championships and top bids. We seem quite far away from that.

And if you do get close - oops, sorry! All your best players leave, hope you enjoyed 30 games of Alondes and Jake that ended in 0 banners and steak memes. While we continue to watch VT, Miami, GT and other "lesser" programs find ways to win big games and championships.

Not a recipe for a great fan experience.
 
Shake said:
its just year 2 but we’re already pretty sure that there will be no NCAA bid as we have no margin for error. I’ve been around for awhile and fell in love with Wake basketball as a kid watching CD. College basketball is all about making the dance now and its hard to recover from what Wellman and Manning did to the program. I don’t count Manning’s play in game so for me this will be 12 years without a bid. I like Forbes a lot but the college game, coaching, recruiting and promotion raced by us over the last 10 years. I once felt the minimum bar was what GDO gave us, now I’m not sure we even get back to the upper half of a weak conference. I suspect there are others like me and it’s reflected in our attendance. Never thought the Wake sport I’d be most excited about would be football.
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This is also a reflection of where college bb is as a whole vs. football. College FB captivates the sports world on a weekly basis from Sept.-November, while college bb boils down to essentially 3 weeks in March. Outside of the 1-bid conferences, even the conference bb tournaments are a ho-hum affair now.
 
Shake said:
its just year 2 but we’re already pretty sure that there will be no NCAA bid as we have no margin for error. I’ve been around for awhile and fell in love with Wake basketball as a kid watching CD. College basketball is all about making the dance now and its hard to recover from what Wellman and Manning did to the program. I don’t count Manning’s play in game so for me this will be 12 years without a bid. I like Forbes a lot but the college game, coaching, recruiting and promotion raced by us over the last 10 years. I once felt the minimum bar was what GDO gave us, now I’m not sure we even get back to the upper half of a weak conference. I suspect there are others like me and it’s reflected in our attendance. Never thought the Wake sport I’d be most excited about would be football.
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Agree with your points but must point out that this is year 3 for Forbes. And with no high school recruits, and the top 100 basically spoken for, it is apparent there will be no NCAA tournament in Year 4 as well.

Of course we have committed to Forbes at this point and it makes no sense to unwind the error so quickly, there must be some sign of life for year 5 to merit a year 5 if you ask me.
 
I think we can discuss the potential outcomes of this team with a lot more information sometime around December 10th, the day we finish up a 3 game stretch @ Wisconsin, @ Clemson, and vs. LSU in Atlanta.

We haven't really played anyone good yet, haven't played on the road, but would be 5-0 if we hadn't stepped on our dicks the last 1:46 of regulation against LMU.

The rest of the ACC looks like a bunch of question marks after the top 3-4 teams (UVA, UNC, Duke, & VT). Outside of those 4 teams (2 of which have also lost a game), the only 2 unbeatens are Notre Dame and NC State... Neither of whom have even played a Top 150 team yet.

For now, I'll be content to watch us (hopefully) beat our next 2 opponents by 25+ before we see what this team has to offer against somewhat better competition.
 
We can appreciate what Forbes is trying to do, and be skeptical about how good we will be the next 2 years.

It is extremely unlikely we will make the tournament this season, and we will be losing our best player (so far) this off-season. Are we getting closer to competing for ACC championships? Sure doesn't feel like it.

I am not upset with Forbes, genuinely think he is doing what he can. And I think he is a lot of fun. I am more frustrated at how much this program has been buried, and how we get out of it. Last season was the closest we have been to success in a long time, and it feels like we are right back to the drawing board relying on a ton of new faces that have about 4 games to figure it out, or the season is toast. There was 0 to build on from last season, because everyone is gone.

Maybe that is just CBB now, and we should focus more on football. When has Wake ever been a 1-year factory in any sport? That has never been our blueprint for success.
 
Jao hasn't played Davian is hurt, and we still should have handled a top hundred 110ish team in the second half if it wasn't for a fluke ending. I definitely felt much worse about how we played in some November and December games last year than the LMU game.
 
PaddyWF said:
This is where I am at. We are almost certainly not making the tourney this season, and what outlook do we have on Year 4 in the Forbes era? He is competent and keeping us competitive after a lost decade. I don't feel confident we are closer to playing for ACC championships and top bids. We seem quite far away from that.

And if you do get close - oops, sorry! All your best players leave, hope you enjoyed 30 games of Alondes and Jake that ended in 0 banners and steak memes. While we continue to watch VT, Miami, GT and other "lesser" programs find ways to win big games and championships.

Not a recipe for a great fan experience.
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My glass is half full. Forbes has a much different team than last year. The major difference is that it is much younger. Last year's transfers were tested veterans. Forbes is struggling to fit the pieces together at this early stage of the season. Hopefully, we soon get past the injuries to Williamson and Ituka and Forbes can settle on a firm top 8 or 9 rotation. Then, after the first of the year this team may surprise. Hopefully, it will not be too late because the upcoming games with Wisconsin, Clemson, LSU, and Rutgers are very important as far as post season hopes are concerned.
 
This team just doesn't have a lot of talent. Recruiting has been an issue -- I know NIL has been cited as a reason, not sure if that's legit or just an excuse. I think there were/are some pretty hopeful but baseless assessments, such as Carr being as good as LaRavia, Klintman being an NBA talent, Bradford being a good player, etc. that just aren't true. Maybe Ituka will turn out to be really good and Monstanto will pick it up, but I'm not holding my breath on either.
 
ChrisL68 said:
too early to tell. I didn't see last year's team winning 25 games when we barely beat a terrible Oregon State team got our ass kicked by LSU and barely beat VMI and Charlotte.
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True. However by that point in the season ManMan had a triple double and Jake had taken over the Northwestern game with 21 points on 10 shots, 7 rebounds, game-winning iso and shot.
 
Good grief. People are overreacting to an overtime loss in an early part of the season with a bunch of new players. The judgments are coming down fast and furious in this thread. This is the same team that beat Utah Valley in OT and people weren't falling all over themselves to declare the season a disaster. Instead, Forbes was lauded for a brilliant end of OT playcall. Also the same team that beat KenPom 98ranked UGA by 10 and was up by 20 for much of the game. If Marsh makes one free throw at the end of the LMU game, about 40 posts would never have even been written on this thread.

The team, as a lot of college bball teams are because of transfers, is a work in progress. Get back to me in January.
 
heaven forbid WF basketball fans discuss WF basketball! everybody stop talking until January!
 
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