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MBB Game 5: LSU -- CC Consolation Final - 3 pm Sunday ESPN2

This is like the QB situation all over again. Marsh is Griffis, Keller is Kern, and Reid is like Hartman effectively. Marsh and Keller have their moments but generally aren't good, they're just not good in different ways. It's rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

We were watching the portal all year thinking "ok, this is great and all, but we HAVE to get a legit PF/C with size so we're not relying on current players or else we are screwed." Especially considering Carr is simply a thin, lanky dude.

So, here we are. Screwed. Our roster has four 6'6" guards on it if you include Monsanto. Our backcourt outscores their counterparts 2:1 and we lose.

And it's a damn shame because Sallis, Boopie, and Cam are only a few games in playing together and have a real chance to be elite.
 
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Pilchard said:
WF Efficiency Ratings, through 5 games:

KP: Offense: 111.8 #33; Defense: 102.4 #150
Torvik: Offense 111.5 #34; Defense: 102.9 #176 (among ACC teams only L'ville and ND have worse defensive ratings)

WF has the ugly combination of not turning over opponents (#317 in defensive TO rate), while also giving up a ton of offensive boards (#285 in preventing offensive boards). Theoretically, it should be next to impossible to suck in both categories as teams that sag and don't force TOs should at least have decent team rebounding numbers... Nope. Understand depth is an issue; so, perhaps the team has to dial it back on D, but the Deacs are not looking good in hustle stats.
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The lack of defensive rebounding is maddening. But I still don't understand the current defensive philosophy with no post presence.

We continue to challenge players both inside and outside of the perimeter who put the ball on the floor and drive past our guys with ease that results in the remaining defense breaking down and allowing our opponents an easy shot at the rim or a kickout for a wide open 3.

I get that Forbes wants to play a suffocating M2M but he either doesn't have the talent or athleticism to play it successfully and the numbers (so far) bear that out.
 
Overall yesterday I thought we should've just played zone the entire game. We aren't getting rebounds anyway, so might as well just not get roasted on the backdowns/penetrations.
 
keller is a modern tweener. he offers no interior defense and is a poor rebounder, but he also can't guard on the perimeter. on offense he is bad in the dunker's spot or rolling to the basket, but while he can shoot, he also can't really be trusted with the ball in his hands on the perimeter. he's a classic "stretch 4" which is a totally dead position at this level in the modern game. he's even more unplayable than marsh who at least is solid playing the center spot on offense.

carr is a bit of a tweener too, but he can play both positions competently since he's a solid rim protector, is good around the basket on offense and is passable on both ends from the perimeter (although i think that's questionable on offense, from what i've seen we do not have a good time when he tries to make a move from the perimeter).
 
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Marsh still being out really hurt. At the dunker spot on offense, once he gets the ball, write down the 2 pts and go play D.

On D, he isn't a great rim protector. However, I suspect he is more of a "shot discourager" than he gets credit for. That is, opponents simply don't try certain shots because of his very large presence down low.

I suspect he is still slowly learning and internalizing that he is usually the biggest guy on the court. He grew up with two older brothers who are as big as he is. So he spent a lot of years, like a decade, learning that he wasn't the biggest guy in the driveway. He hadn't fully gotten over that in two years. We will see if and when he does.
 
Keller is my no means ACC-ready at this point, but its a tall task to guard the opposing team's best player for 3 straight games.
 
Marsh has gotten so much better since the GA game by not playing. If you revisit those game threads, it seemed many wanted him to pack his bags immediately.
 
daaberry said:
Marsh has gotten so much better since the GA game by not playing. If you revisit those game threads, it seemed many wanted him to pack his bags immediately.
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Marsh is still a large human being who is better suited to play against the liks of Utah's seven footers and Baker from LSU. I like Wake's chances a lot better if those guys are out on the three point line instead of inside collecting a bazillion offensive rebounds.
 
Yeah Marsh combined for 4 points and 9 boards against Elon and UGA. Keller can at least potentially hit a couple 3's and get a put-back or something. Maybe Marsh clogs up the middle for a few more boards against Utah, but Keller chipped in 10 points in that one. Hard to see a big delta there. Utah was a 2 point game at the 2 minute mark and we missed 4 consecutive threes to end it. Not exactly a Marsh problem.

Keller scoring 0 against a worse LSU team was incredibly bad though. Especially when one single point might have won the game as it went to OT. That game literally only needed the slightest bit of added depth from a usable big man which is basically what you find in the dictionary if you look up Marsh, so yeah we probably would have won that one.

Without Reid this season's going to be another clawing, grinding slog to the NIT.
 
I would love to see "points responsible for" from a defensive standpoint. Keller got abused inside the last 3 games (as did Carr to some extent).

Marsh isn't a great defensive stalwart, but he is a massive body who can at least prevent folks from getting easy baskets.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I would love to see "points responsible for" from a defensive standpoint. Keller got abused inside the last 3 games (as did Carr to some extent).

Marsh isn't a great defensive stalwart, but he is a massive body who can at least prevent folks from getting easy baskets.
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There were multiple times yesterday where Baker got the ball ~15 feet from the rim, backed Keller (or Carr) down all the way to the basket, and then scored easily. Say what you will about Marsh, but that shit doesn't happen with him in the game.

Marsh also isn't a good rebounder by any means, but he at least stands his ground and prevents his guy from getting the easy offensive rebounds that teams got against us the whole time in Charleston.
 
with Marsh in Carr wouldn't be totally worthless on the Perimeter in the 2nd half.
 
deacon14 said:
There were multiple times yesterday where Baker got the ball ~15 feet from the rim, backed Keller (or Carr) down all the way to the basket, and then scored easily. Say what you will about Marsh, but that shit doesn't happen with him in the game.

Marsh also isn't a good rebounder by any means, but he at least stands his ground and prevents his guy from getting the easy offensive rebounds that teams got against us the whole time in Charleston.
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I mean, isn't exactly what Burns did to him last year in the State game in Winston? Marsh does not play d. At all.
 
ChrisL68 said:
with Marsh in Carr wouldn't be totally worthless on the Perimeter in the 2nd half.
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Yeah, asking Carr to play physical defense against the biggest player on the opposing team for 3 games in 4 days and then expecting anything from him on the offensive end was misguided. The fact that the ball went to him multiple times in OT yesterday made no sense to me at all.
 
Boopie and Sallis are still figuring out that a lob to Marsh when he has dunker position is almost guaranteed two points. Appleby figured that out last year. Marsh is really good at catching lobs and dunking them.
 
BigDeacEnergy said:
Don't think we'll have Monsanto or Reid by the time we play Florida and Rutgers. The noncon games after Dec 6 are a bunch of poorly rated midmajors. Wish the November schedule included the midmajors and December had the more important games, for our sake.
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Would we have been better off staying in the Grand Cayman MTE instead of going 1-2 without even playing the best team in Charleston?
 
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