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Me Too [Cuomo joins hall of shame]

RJ, I'm impressed by your improved use of qualifiers. Good work.
 
thatguy2016 said:
If only she had provided some clue as to whether it was against her will
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"I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me."

I'm not arguing it was against her will. I'm asking if Franken could have known it was against her will AT THE TIME, and should he be judged for it.

Clearly, he knew afterwards, based on her reaction, and should have stayed the hell away from her.
 
It is interesting that we seem now to have conflated the definitions of "sexual harassment" and "sexual assault" in a way I find slightly troubling. This shit is all terrible. But to me at least there's a huge difference between the behavior of, say, Al Franken and Harvey Weinstein. Or Louis CK and Roy Moore.
 
wakephan09 said:
It is interesting that we seem now to have conflated the definitions of "sexual harassment" and "sexual assault" in a way I find slightly troubling. This shit is all terrible. But to me at least there's a huge difference between the behavior of, say, Al Franken and Harvey Weinstein. Or Louis CK and Roy Moore.
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Is groping a passed out woman and forcing your tongue down her throat not sexual assault?
 
BillBrasky said:
Is groping a passed out woman and forcing your tongue down her throat not sexual assault?
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They weren't the same event and CNN is reporting the "groping" as mock groping. It's extremely bad taste, childish and wrong but it's not the same.
 
Assuming you meant them as separate events:

I think groping a passed out woman (if indeed there was touching...I'm not convinced just by the picture) is absolutely sexual assault. If that's the case, he's got to go down. If there was no touching, seems like "sexual harassment" to me.

Sticking his tongue down her throat is slightly more complicated, because it sounds like she said "ok." I'm not saying this isn't a shitty, horrible, disgusting thing to do. It is. But in these circumstances I'm not sure it meets my arbitrary standard for "sexual assault". Doesn't mean I think he shouldn't get in trouble for it though.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
"I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me."

I'm not arguing it was against her will. I'm asking if Franken could have known it was against her will AT THE TIME, and should he be judged for it.

Clearly, he knew afterwards, based on her reaction, and should have stayed the hell away from her.
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Uh yeah he could have / should have known AT THE TIME

and if he knew afterwards where's the explicit apology for it? and by "it" I mean the thing he now, today, says he "remembers differently from Leann"
 
thatguy2016 said:
Uh yeah he could have / should have known AT THE TIME

and if he knew afterwards where's the explicit apology for it? and by "it" I mean the thing he now, today, says he "remembers differently from Leann"
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How should he have know at the time?
 
How Franken got as far as he has in politics is beyond me. Snl cast member and regular backstage party dude at mid 80s Grateful Dead concerts?
 
thatguy2016 said:
seriously?

first paragraph is a standard blanket apology with no specifics

once we get into specifics, he denies #1
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That is one interpretation. I think a more reasonable interpretation is that his initial paragraph is apologizing for everything. Suggesting he remembers an event differently later on in his statement doesn't necessarily negate his apology. It can be both.
 
ChrisL68 said:
How Franken got as far as he has in politics is beyond me. Snl cast member and regular backstage party dude at mid 80s Grateful Dead concerts?
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He did graduate from Harvard with a cum laude degree in political. He did write two best-selling satirical books about politics and had a national radio show about politics. By having virtually 100% name recognition, he skipped local politics.

I guess Minnesotans didn't care his partying.
 
It's a pic where he isn't even grabbing her tits. He's acting like it, or at least that's what it looks like to me. You can see the shadows underneath his fingers, which means there is plenty of space there. Childish, but not a big deal. Obviously a bad look for a sitting Senator, even if he wasn't a Senator at the time. But I've taken photos where I pretend to do the same thing. Or where I pretend to grab a dude's junk, and it's not like I'm getting a charge out of it. When dudes pass out, they're known to take pics of the other dude looking silly. This notion that doing stupid shit is somehow "making fun of sexual assault" is just dumb. If he had just actually assaulted her and then sat there and laughed about it, that would be making fun of sexual assault. Acting like you're grabbing some tits isn't in the same ballpark.

The shooting his tongue down her throat is not a big deal either. Sorry, but it isn't. I can't believe he tried that shit at his age, and am also surprised that she acquiesced to such a transparent maneuver to "rehearse" (oh no, I've apparently "blamed the victim" even though I haven't), but she was just grossed out, not sexually assaulted. Have no guys on this board ever tried to kiss a girl and been rebuffed? Maybe not, considering this bunch. Is kissing and being rebuffed any different from sticking your tongue down a throat and being rebuffed? Does the extension of the kiss suddenly make it sexual assault? Are we to view it like penile penetration?

We've also lost track of what it means to be sexually harassed. Sexual harassment was always when a guy was using his superior position at work to get sexual favors or to play grabass or whatever. His position of authority made it sexual harassment, not the mere fact that he was a male making a female feel uncomfortable. A co-worker giving another co-worker unwanted romantic or sexual attention is a co-worker being a pain in the ass and affecting his work environment. We call that sexual harassment now because we're lazy. We used to just call it being an asshole.
 
tiltdeac said:
That is one interpretation. I think a more reasonable interpretation is that his initial paragraph is apologizing for everything. Suggesting he remembers an event differently later on in his statement doesn't necessarily negate his apology. It can be both.
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Here's what he says, in full:

"While I don't remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand we need to listen to and believe women's experiences."

I would believe he was actually apologizing for this particular act if he had added any words of contrition to the end of that sentence, such as for example,

"Clearly Leeann views my actions as inappropriate and I apologize for making her feel uncomfortable"

but he didn't say that

no, he just said he remembers it differently #shewantedmytongueinherthroat #butweneedtobelieveher #butreallyIdon't
 
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Paragraph 3 of ELC's rant can be summarized as "Make America Great Again"
 
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