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MSNBC or Lamont Hill

I think it is disgusting. Let's laugh at a white family for adopting a black kid and then make fun of the kid for not belonging...as if black folks should just stick with their own. If a Republican made similar comments MSNBC severs would explode with all the calls of racism.

I think it is hard to be disgusted by people who I don't think really realized how dumb they were being in the moment. In their rush to mock their political rival they made a few really big blunders. And given some fo the things I've heard over the last dozen years, I view it in a broader context given the fact I have adopted two kids from another country and hear people say things from time to time that really miss the mark.

The lines of thought I hear go on three points - all of which are off base IMO.

1 - General attacks on adoption. That isn't happening here. And it rarely does. Bitter people will be bitter on a range of topics.
2 - People who make statements about mixed race families. Almost never is it someone making a blatantly racist attack on the parent or the kids - who would want to adopt a kid like that or how can you stand having white parents type of comments. I can't recall anyone every directly saying that to me or my kids. Rather these statements tend to be cultural types statements pontificating that black kids would be better off in black families, white kids in white families, latino kids in latino families. Whatever. That misses the mark on so many levels. First, it really should not matter one bit. My kids are Colombian. And we're a family who cares about each other and loves each other. Second, given the number of children who are institutionalized and the proven negative impacts that has on their lives it is far better to work really hard to get as many kids as possible into stable homes with loving parents than to get hung up all these notions about whether situation a is better than situation b - especially given the fact you can't prove on the front end what would be better in any particular situation. A white kid could end up crappy white parents. IMO the Hague Convention has done kids around the world few favors by setting in motion big time brakes on transnational adoptions. So this is institutionalized thinking to a large degree. That type of thinking wasn't drummed out on the show. But it was a really dumb segment from the standpoint of calling out the fact the child is black and Romney is white. If you really believe in 'diversity' and all the things MSNBC pretends to stand up for, then you don't say anything. It's just a photo of a family. God made man in his image. Isn't that what we're taught? Well, man comes in lots of diferent colors so God must encompass all of them.
3 - People who make statements about how noble adoption is. I find this quite problematic on a number of levels. First, it objectifies the child. And that is a horrible thing to do. The child isn't something to be pitied or to told it is lucky. Normalize the situation to the greatest degree possible. Second, it assigns bizarre motives to the parents. I'm sure there are adoptive parents who are narcisitic twats who adopted in part because they wanted a social gold star. Most I know had no other avenue to create a family and just wanted to be parents. What they did they didn't do because it was noble. They did it because they wanted to care for a child. Here's a thought from the woman who founded the orphanage in Bogota from which our kids were adopted. She passed away several years ago. She created her own family out of adoption - adopting one child from Canada and another from Colombia. And then she founded the orphanage from which our kids were adopted - as were about 15,000 other kids over the last several decades. Every parent chooses to adopt their children and every child deserves a loving home. So whether you gave birth to your kids or adopted them, you have to choose to care for them and to love them. That was her way of saying don't shine a light on adoption as something distinctly being noble. Shine a light on it as a statement of wanting to love someone.
 
I think it is hard to be disgusted by people who I don't think really realized how dumb they were being in the moment. In their rush to mock their political rival they made a few really big blunders. And given some fo the things I've heard over the last dozen years, I view it in a broader context given the fact I have adopted two kids from another country and hear people say things from time to time that really miss the mark.

The lines of thought I hear go on three points - all of which are off base IMO.

1 - General attacks on adoption. That isn't happening here. And it rarely does. Bitter people will be bitter on a range of topics.
2 - People who make statements about mixed race families. Almost never is it someone making a blatantly racist attack on the parent or the kids - who would want to adopt a kid like that or how can you stand having white parents type of comments. I can't recall anyone every directly saying that to me or my kids. Rather these statements tend to be cultural types statements pontificating that black kids would be better off in black families, white kids in white families, latino kids in latino families. Whatever. That misses the mark on so many levels. First, it really should not matter one bit. My kids are Colombian. And we're a family who cares about each other and loves each other. Second, given the number of children who are institutionalized and the proven negative impacts that has on their lives it is far better to work really hard to get as many kids as possible into stable homes with loving parents than to get hung up all these notions about whether situation a is better than situation b - especially given the fact you can't prove on the front end what would be better in any particular situation. A white kid could end up crappy white parents. IMO the Hague Convention has done kids around the world few favors by setting in motion big time brakes on transnational adoptions. So this is institutionalized thinking to a large degree. That type of thinking wasn't drummed out on the show. But it was a really dumb segment from the standpoint of calling out the fact the child is black and Romney is white. If you really believe in 'diversity' and all the things MSNBC pretends to stand up for, then you don't say anything. It's just a photo of a family. God made man in his image. Isn't that what we're taught? Well, man comes in lots of diferent colors so God must encompass all of them.
3 - People who make statements about how noble adoption is. I find this quite problematic on a number of levels. First, it objectifies the child. And that is a horrible thing to do. The child isn't something to be pitied or to told it is lucky. Normalize the situation to the greatest degree possible. Second, it assigns bizarre motives to the parents. I'm sure there are adoptive parents who are narcisitic twats who adopted in part because they wanted a social gold star. Most I know had no other avenue to create a family and just wanted to be parents. What they did they didn't do because it was noble. They did it because they wanted to care for a child. Here's a thought from the woman who founded the orphanage in Bogota from which our kids were adopted. She passed away several years ago. She created her own family out of adoption - adopting one child from Canada and another from Colombia. And then she founded the orphanage from which our kids were adopted - as were about 15,000 other kids over the last several decades. Every parent chooses to adopt their children and every child deserves a loving home. So whether you gave birth to your kids or adopted them, you have to choose to care for them and to love them. That was her way of saying don't shine a light on adoption as something distinctly being noble. Shine a light on it as a statement of wanting to love someone.

Deacman strong as usual.
 
Far better time is invested here on the Tunnels. I really think I'm down to 13 posts away from winning 94Deac's deathbed conversion to fiscal conservatism.

not sure if joking, but I guarantee you I learn more every day on the Tunnels than I could possibly learn watching any TV news show. I learn from other posters, from the links they provide, and from the research I do to support my own posts.
 
I think it is hard to be disgusted by people who I don't think really realized how dumb they were being in the moment. In their rush to mock their political rival they made a few really big blunders. And given some fo the things I've heard over the last dozen years, I view it in a broader context given the fact I have adopted two kids from another country and hear people say things from time to time that really miss the mark.

The lines of thought I hear go on three points - all of which are off base IMO.

1 - General attacks on adoption. That isn't happening here. And it rarely does. Bitter people will be bitter on a range of topics.
2 - People who make statements about mixed race families. Almost never is it someone making a blatantly racist attack on the parent or the kids - who would want to adopt a kid like that or how can you stand having white parents type of comments. I can't recall anyone every directly saying that to me or my kids. Rather these statements tend to be cultural types statements pontificating that black kids would be better off in black families, white kids in white families, latino kids in latino families. Whatever. That misses the mark on so many levels. First, it really should not matter one bit. My kids are Colombian. And we're a family who cares about each other and loves each other. Second, given the number of children who are institutionalized and the proven negative impacts that has on their lives it is far better to work really hard to get as many kids as possible into stable homes with loving parents than to get hung up all these notions about whether situation a is better than situation b - especially given the fact you can't prove on the front end what would be better in any particular situation. A white kid could end up crappy white parents. IMO the Hague Convention has done kids around the world few favors by setting in motion big time brakes on transnational adoptions. So this is institutionalized thinking to a large degree. That type of thinking wasn't drummed out on the show. But it was a really dumb segment from the standpoint of calling out the fact the child is black and Romney is white. If you really believe in 'diversity' and all the things MSNBC pretends to stand up for, then you don't say anything. It's just a photo of a family. God made man in his image. Isn't that what we're taught? Well, man comes in lots of diferent colors so God must encompass all of them.
3 - People who make statements about how noble adoption is. I find this quite problematic on a number of levels. First, it objectifies the child. And that is a horrible thing to do. The child isn't something to be pitied or to told it is lucky. Normalize the situation to the greatest degree possible. Second, it assigns bizarre motives to the parents. I'm sure there are adoptive parents who are narcisitic twats who adopted in part because they wanted a social gold star. Most I know had no other avenue to create a family and just wanted to be parents. What they did they didn't do because it was noble. They did it because they wanted to care for a child. Here's a thought from the woman who founded the orphanage in Bogota from which our kids were adopted. She passed away several years ago. She created her own family out of adoption - adopting one child from Canada and another from Colombia. And then she founded the orphanage from which our kids were adopted - as were about 15,000 other kids over the last several decades. Every parent chooses to adopt their children and every child deserves a loving home. So whether you gave birth to your kids or adopted them, you have to choose to care for them and to love them. That was her way of saying don't shine a light on adoption as something distinctly being noble. Shine a light on it as a statement of wanting to love someone.

:rock:
 
not sure if joking, but I guarantee you I learn more every day on the Tunnels than I could possibly learn watching any TV news show. I learn from other posters, from the links they provide, and from the research I do to support my own posts.

this exactly. I occasionally see one of these so-called news shows at a friend or relative's house for a few moments, and all that goes through my mind is "I will get both sides of this story more accurately later when I check Tunnels." I can't even really concentrate on what they are saying because I can't make myself trust any of it whatsoever
 
I think it is hard to be disgusted by people who I don't think really realized how dumb they were being in the moment. In their rush to mock their political rival they made a few really big blunders. And given some fo the things I've heard over the last dozen years, I view it in a broader context given the fact I have adopted two kids from another country and hear people say things from time to time that really miss the mark.

The lines of thought I hear go on three points - all of which are off base IMO.

1 - General attacks on adoption. That isn't happening here. And it rarely does. Bitter people will be bitter on a range of topics.
2 - People who make statements about mixed race families. Almost never is it someone making a blatantly racist attack on the parent or the kids - who would want to adopt a kid like that or how can you stand having white parents type of comments. I can't recall anyone every directly saying that to me or my kids. Rather these statements tend to be cultural types statements pontificating that black kids would be better off in black families, white kids in white families, latino kids in latino families. Whatever. That misses the mark on so many levels. First, it really should not matter one bit. My kids are Colombian. And we're a family who cares about each other and loves each other. Second, given the number of children who are institutionalized and the proven negative impacts that has on their lives it is far better to work really hard to get as many kids as possible into stable homes with loving parents than to get hung up all these notions about whether situation a is better than situation b - especially given the fact you can't prove on the front end what would be better in any particular situation. A white kid could end up crappy white parents. IMO the Hague Convention has done kids around the world few favors by setting in motion big time brakes on transnational adoptions. So this is institutionalized thinking to a large degree. That type of thinking wasn't drummed out on the show. But it was a really dumb segment from the standpoint of calling out the fact the child is black and Romney is white. If you really believe in 'diversity' and all the things MSNBC pretends to stand up for, then you don't say anything. It's just a photo of a family. God made man in his image. Isn't that what we're taught? Well, man comes in lots of diferent colors so God must encompass all of them.
3 - People who make statements about how noble adoption is. I find this quite problematic on a number of levels. First, it objectifies the child. And that is a horrible thing to do. The child isn't something to be pitied or to told it is lucky. Normalize the situation to the greatest degree possible. Second, it assigns bizarre motives to the parents. I'm sure there are adoptive parents who are narcisitic twats who adopted in part because they wanted a social gold star. Most I know had no other avenue to create a family and just wanted to be parents. What they did they didn't do because it was noble. They did it because they wanted to care for a child. Here's a thought from the woman who founded the orphanage in Bogota from which our kids were adopted. She passed away several years ago. She created her own family out of adoption - adopting one child from Canada and another from Colombia. And then she founded the orphanage from which our kids were adopted - as were about 15,000 other kids over the last several decades. Every parent chooses to adopt their children and every child deserves a loving home. So whether you gave birth to your kids or adopted them, you have to choose to care for them and to love them. That was her way of saying don't shine a light on adoption as something distinctly being noble. Shine a light on it as a statement of wanting to love someone.

What a great post. A few points to add as a fellow parent of adopted, mixed-race kids:
1. The cultural statement thing is so true- during Christmas, an extended family member (in-law, FWIW) freaked out because my 5-year old was wearing his new hat sideways. When I asked her why, she said because "it is the bla- (and then caught herself) -gangsta way to wear it." As if a 5-year old can be a "gangsta." As far as the black thing goes, well, he is.
2. The nobility thing always sticks in my craw- I hate people telling me "you saved those boys" (speaking of my two sons). I didn't rescue them from a fucking burning building or something- those guys are my KIDS, for fuck's sake. They would be my kids whether they were adopted or biological. And it is based upon the fiction that somehow biological families are better than adopted ones. That's simply not true. Loving families are better than ones without love.
3. Melissa Harris-Perry really should be ashamed of herself. And the comedian shouldn't ever show up on MSNBC again.
 
not sure if joking, but I guarantee you I learn more every day on the Tunnels than I could possibly learn watching any TV news show. I learn from other posters, from the links they provide, and from the research I do to support my own posts.

Count me in this boat. This Board certainly is full of bias left and right but almost all posters are not only highly educated, but well versed On a variety of economic and political topics.
 
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I think we should defend her right to say these things and criticize MSNBC if they suspend her for these comments because it would be a de facto violation of her first amendment rights.

I'm sure there's a Bible verse somewhere that'll support her line of thinking (joking).
 
Wow. Lots of cross cultural adoption here. Love that.

We have one biological child and one Asian adoptive child and i've always struggled with the whole she's so lucky bit. I usually shrug it off and just say 'no we are the lucky ones'. I realize people are being supportive and nice and not mal-intentioned. Of course the way we are headed here she might have had a better chance in Vietnam.

That being said, adoption is a really hard topic for some. We are a lily white Swedish Lutheran family and I just laugh when someone feigns surprise that our Vietnamese daughter was adopted.

"She's adopted? I didn't realize that".

The real heros out here are the foster parents and adoptive parents of children with special needs.
 
Wow. Lots of cross cultural adoption here. Love that.

We have one biological child and one Asian adoptive child and i've always struggled with the whole she's so lucky bit. I usually shrug it off and just say 'no we are the lucky ones'. I realize people are being supportive and nice and not mal-intentioned. Of course the way we are headed here she might have had a better chance in Vietnam.

That being said, adoption is a really hard topic for some. We are a lily white Swedish Lutheran family and I just laugh when someone feigns surprise that our Vietnamese daughter was adopted.

"She's adopted? I didn't realize that".

The real heros out here are the foster parents and adoptive parents of children with special needs.

Amen.
 
Wow. Lots of cross cultural adoption here. Love that.

We have one biological child and one Asian adoptive child and i've always struggled with the whole she's so lucky bit. I usually shrug it off and just say 'no we are the lucky ones'. I realize people are being supportive and nice and not mal-intentioned. Of course the way we are headed here she might have had a better chance in Vietnam.

That being said, adoption is a really hard topic for some. We are a lily white Swedish Lutheran family and I just laugh when someone feigns surprise that our Vietnamese daughter was adopted.

"She's adopted? I didn't realize that".

The real heros out here are the foster parents and adoptive parents of children with special needs.

No we're the lucky ones is my standard operating line as well. And I too chuckle when someone feigns surprise that my daughter is adopted. With my son it is at least within the realm of reason to think he may have been a birth child as his skin is a bit lighter than hers. But no one could look at my daughter and not know she wasn't adopted.

I echo the Amen.
 
Do you people really watch MSNBC or Fox?

If you do, kill your television immediately. I didn't even watch the clip I just read about it. What an asshole. Seems there is so much airtime to fill that these dickheads (on both sides) can't help themselves from saying stupid shit.

Fuck TV
Fuck TV
Fuck TV
Fuck TV

and fuck Facebook and twitter. Colossal wastes of time and energy.

I keep Shel Silverstein's "Kill Your TV" and make the children read it every once in awhile...

Actually, I am blessed in that they rarely watch TV outside of a netflix here and there.

I used to enjoy places like these sport-centric sites ...where you could escape the daily bs and have an alter ego...butt-fukkit, some folks just have to be linking-in 24-7
 
The "lucky kid" comment is usually someone trying to say something positive that has never really taken the time to think about adoption. It's a surface comment without any real thought invested. How lucky is a kid whose birth parents are dead, or who don't really want him or are incapable of taking care of him? For all of the joys and good that comes from adoption, there's tons of brokenness too. I'd wager quite a bit more bad than good in the grand scheme. People seem to forget that a kid is going to deal with a lot of pain, shame, questions, not feeling whole, etc growing up. And that racial issues will be hard...really hard. And few, if any, think about the brokenness of the mom (and sometimes dad) who gave up their kid. Sure, there's plenty of good in adoption, but none of it could happen if things hadn't already gone horribly wrong. There's nothing lucky about it.
 
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The "lucky kid" comment is usually someone trying to say something positive that has never really taken the time to think about adoption. It's a surface comment without any real thought invested. How lucky is a kid whose birth parents are dead, or who don't really want him or are incapable of taking care of him? For all of the joys and good that comes from adoption, there's tons of brokenness too. I'd wager quite a bit more bad than good in the grand scheme. People seem to forget that a kid is going to deal with a lot of pain, shame, questions, not feeling whole, etc growing up. And that racial issues will be hard...really hard. And few, if any, think about the brokenness of the mom (and sometimes dad) who gave up their kid. Sure, there's plenty of good in adoption, but none of it could happen if things hadn't already gone horribly wrong. There's nothing lucky about it.

I was hoping you were going to lend your voice to this thread. Good post, as anticipated.
 
not sure if joking, but I guarantee you I learn more every day on the Tunnels than I could possibly learn watching any TV news show. I learn from other posters, from the links they provide, and from the research I do to support my own posts.

This, for certain... excepting that very last part as I am always making it up as I go.
 
The "lucky kid" comment is usually someone trying to say something positive that has never really taken the time to think about adoption. It's a surface comment without any real thought invested. How lucky is a kid whose birth parents are dead, or who don't really want him or are incapable of taking care of him? For all of the joys and good that comes from adoption, there's tons of brokenness too. I'd wager quite a bit more bad than good in the grand scheme. People seem to forget that a kid is going to deal with a lot of pain, shame, questions, not feeling whole, etc growing up. And that racial issues will be hard...really hard. And few, if any, think about the brokenness of the mom (and sometimes dad) who gave up their kid. Sure, there's plenty of good in adoption, but none of it could happen if things hadn't already gone horribly wrong. There's nothing lucky about it.

Well...in the broadest sense you are right...but still, a child adopted by someone like yourself and your family is at some level, deeply blessed. Maybe not lucky, but surely blessed in the presence of so many who remain parent less.
 
Well...in the broadest sense you are right...but still, a child adopted by someone like yourself and your family is at some level, deeply blessed. Maybe not lucky, but surely blessed in the presence of so many who remain parent less.

Sure. And a cancer patient is "lucky" when a tumor is removed, but he still had cancer, will continue to undergo treatment and will always be worried about it coming back. "You're so lucky" just isn't what I'd say to a friend laying in recovery from surgery at the hospital. It's just that most people understand the cancer scenario, whereas few have thought through adoption. And the brokenness I mentioned above doesn't even touch on things like infertility that many adoptive parents deal with or the stealing/buying/selling of children that still happens in some cases of foreign adoption. I just have a hard time using the word lucky...

Don't get me wrong. I know the comment comes from a good place and I understand the sentiment, but it just misses the reality and depth of the situation.
 
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I concede your point... you understand first hand and I don't.

I spoke in "universals" and, as you pointed out, that just isn't much of a bandage for anything so close up and real.
 
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