• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

NC State Post Game Thoughts

Wrangor

Go Deacs
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
12,413
Reaction score
1,376
Finally got a chance to watch a game live. Have been forced to watch the day after for most games this year due to work.

1. For the most part a well played game by the Deacs. We had some mental lapses (especially the 5 minute stretch in the second half) but that happens when you play talented teams, and NC State has some serious talent in their starting 5.

2. Last night's game was a great example of why you need 4 big men that can contribute. State has 3, and it killed them. Their lineup is a more talented version of BZ lineups. They rely upon a single player to create all the offense, and if that person gets hot then they are competitive. In the end they are going to lose more than they win because they can't compete inside if any of their big men have foul trouble.

3. Cat Barber can really play. He is going to lead the conference in scoring by a wide margin. You can't take the ball out of the point guards hands, and he is way too much to handle individually for pretty much anyone in the conference.

4. Our pick and roll defense has really improved over the past month. I thought Manning's decision to trap the pick and roll some of the time and heavy hedge some of the time was a very good strateg. Barber got his points, but his first 9 points were not out of their offense. He hit three three pointers in the first 6 minutes and they were all from the same spot. One was a dribble down, the other two were the results of offensive rebounds I believe. I thought we contained Barber well without giving up to many bunnies under the basket. Can only remember twice that our rotations were REALLY slow. That is a great improvement.

4b. Our half court offense was decent. Goal was to stretch the lumberjacks out on pick and rolls and drive it with CMM or look to get Devin on the backside of the pick and roll in position. I would still like to see CMM be more aggressive on the drive, as I think he can score it or get fouled at a higher clip, but he is attempted to defer to other players right now for the most part which isn't an awful plan either. Our game plan wasn't complex, but State pretty much just matched up man to man with a little 3/4 pressure at times in the second half. We don't have any trouble with the press now which is a nice luxury.

5. Dinos had his best game of the year, and we needed it. He is playing tougher lately (I didn't see the Duke game so I can't comment on that). If he can continue to improve on the defensive end, and provide some sort of rebounding he becomes very valuable.

6. Devin won the game for us with his play and demeanor. You could tell that Manning and he had talked this week and he never came close to acting out the entire game. On the one play where he probably SHOULD have complained a bit, he was stoic and just talking to the other ref as though they were splitting an ice tea on the back porch. Really proud of Devin and I think it speaks highly of Manning that he has made an impact on Devin's demeanor without quenching his fire to play hard.

7. I have been pretty hard on CMM this year, but actually thought he played a solid game last night. For the most part he played to his strengths and even hit a pullup jump shot in the first half. The defense is still going underneath all the screens against him, and he has to do continue to attack the basket, but he was a net positive last night on the court.

8. Game plan by Manning on offense was pretty simple. Beat them down the court, keep the pace high, and go on a run when they get tired. We hit a few threes to start the second half which turned out to be a bit of fools gold as we abandoned the post and allowed State to make a run right back at us. I understand feeding someone that is locked in, but I would love to see us get the ball into Devin even more, ESPECIALLY after we build a lead. We need to make the defense work. You will get some cheap fouls called and those will pay dividends late.

9. I thought Hudson played awful. Hopefully he turns it around. I have noticed that he is leaving every shot short...literally I can't remember a shot he has missed long. His form looks solid, his release is good, so I would suggest he change his aiming point to the back of the rim and see what happens. HUDSON - if you are reading this, focus on the back of the rim instead of the front. Try to miss long next time you shoot. My guess is it would go in. :eek:

10. Gottfried is a good recruiter, but he is a mediocre in game coach. As long as he can continue to refill the coffers I think he will do well, but if he ever hits a dry stretch on the recruiting trail State will be AWFUL.

11. I still find it difficult to believe there is a human being named 'BJ ANYA'. Not sure how the announcers don't snort like an 8th grader everytime they announce his name. Brutal birthright buddy.

12. Watson's defense was solid once again. Can't remember when it was (think it was the first half) but he entered the game and immediately stole the ball and assisted to Hudson for a layup on the other end. Those kind of plays stick in a coach's mind. Watson is going to continue to see minutes when we have a difficult guard matchup on defense.

13. Collins was overwhelmed by the size of NC State's frontcourt. He needs to get stronger this offseason.

14. Crawford bounced back and well and was hosed by the refs multiple times. I am so glad that he can shoot the ball effectively from the SG position, otherwise we would be in big trouble.

15. Wilbekin did Wilbekin things. Struggled athletically on defense, but generally was in the right position. Hit an open 3 when he had an opportunity, but was unable to create. If Hudson could hit a shot, I would love to see him in the starting lineup over Wilbekin. But until Hudson starts hitting we can't afford to start him with CMM.

16. Manning is a good coach. Not sure if he is great, but he is good. We are in year 2, and the difference in the level of basketball we are playing now vs. what we played 24 months ago is stark. Some of his substitution patterns are still confusing to me, but coaches have different philosophies. I am more of a 7 guy rotation kind of coach, where Manning is clearly a 9-10 rotation kind of coach. I have seen both work effectively.

17. We need more shooters. This is another example of why I am encouraged with Manning as our coach. We didn't have the banner recruiting class that we were all hoping for, but he addressed our greatest need: shooting. Until we have players that can consistently hit an open three pointer we are going to struggle on offense. This is why we play at such a high pace, and most likely why Manning continues to employ a deep bench (in order to keep our guys fresh to run). We literally have 2.5 players that can hit an open jump shot right now: Crawford, Dinos, and I'll give Wilbekin a half star because he is truly limited to being wide open. Childress and Washington are going to be key players for us down the road simply because they will be above average, and potentially great college shooters.

18. Fun to beat NC State. 1-2 is exactly where we should be after those 3 games. We have to go 1-1, and to be honest if we want to seriously be in the NCAA discussion we need to win the next two games. The next four after that are just brutal. Big stretch here. Need to get to 3-2 before we hit the road.
 
Last edited:
18 points, why not 20?

haha...Got to get to work. Already wasted too much time, but I always like reading other people's opinions on these kind of threads, so I thought I would get it started.
 
haha...Got to get to work. Already wasted too much time, but I always like reading other people's opinions on these kind of threads, so I thought I would get it started.

Wasting time on the board during the work day, you should be ashamed, I would never.........:thumbsup:
 
Noticed the same thing you did on rotations and trapping. We need to trap more aggressively if we are going to have more success though. We got in the correct position with a guard and big man on the PnR trap several times, but never hunkered down and got the steal out of it. Dinos in particular moved his feet very well laterally to get in position on several of the PnR's.

I thought MW actually did a pretty good job on Rowan. Thought it was a bit odd at the time that we had him on him, but Hudson also locked down on him late to prevent shots. Rowan will be pretty good once he figures out his shot selection.

Really happy we pounded the ball inside early and often. That's exactly what we should do with Devin in there against Anya, Abu, and Freeman.
 
Games like last night illustrate how much better we are at passing under Manning than we were under Bz or Dino. We've especially gotten better at feeding the post and passing out of the post. I suspect that's something Danny knows a little bit about.
 
Games like last night illustrate how much better we are at passing under Manning than we were under Bz or Dino. We've especially gotten better at feeding the post and passing out of the post. I suspect that's something Danny knows a little bit about.

I think we're seeing that Manning is a good teacher of the game and a good player developer, which are really 2 big traits a good coach must have obviously. Hopefully he'll continue to develop as an in game coach and recruiter. Thomas having such a good year and showing much improvement under Manning has to be a big plus for recruiting, especially "bigs" going forward.
 
While sometimes Manning's use of a deeper bench has created strange lineups, and you could question whether he should just ride his best horses longer, it has given an advantage of less tired legs at the end of games. We have never run out of steam due to fatigue in a game this year. And that might be why we have a great record in close games. (The downside is that may also be why the games are close to begin with though.)
 
It was a big night for Crawford and Dinos. Agree on #9, especially if he continues to shoot poorly. I'm really surprised he is not a good defender, it looks like he had the body type to cause problems on the ball.

Is DT the best big man in the ACC? He is putting up numbers against everyone. And I actually don't feel that uncomfortable with him dribbling from half court to the hole, he is almost always in control.

I don't know if our defense is good enough to win enough conference games for a real shot at the dance. But we have the toughness and heart, this team never quits when down.
 
People on here consistently underestimate how hard it is to play at a high level in ACC play for 30-35 minutes a game. Especially for a big like Devin, who has a motor that is always churning.
 
While sometimes Manning's use of a deeper bench has created strange lineups, and you could question whether he should just ride his best horses longer, it has given an advantage of less tired legs at the end of games. We have never run out of steam due to fatigue in a game this year. And that might be why we have a great record in close games. (The downside is that may also be why the games are close to begin with though.)

Think it was during the Duke game, the announcers made a big point of saying that DM was focused on player fitness.
 
I feel strangely confident with DT taking a rebound up the court and making the right decision. I know there have been a couple of TOs but it seems that we've gotten way more cheap points out of it.
 
Wish we were a bit more effective down the final stretch. To be holding a 10 point lead w/ one minute left then needing a freshman to hit free throws w/ 6 seconds left to prevent a shot at a tie game is going to end up burning us down the road. Crab misses front end, Watson misses two & we don't get any stops adds up quickly.
 
Wish we were a bit more effective down the final stretch. To be holding a 10 point lead w/ one minute left then needing a freshman to hit free throws w/ 6 seconds left to prevent a shot at a tie game is going to end up burning us down the road. Crab misses front end, Watson misses two & we don't get any stops adds up quickly.

The goal is to win the game, doesn't really matter how much.

We just need to get the ball into the right hands. Crab seems to miss a lot of free throws towards the end of the game, and Watson was clearly in for defensive purposes, but wound up with the ball in his hands.

The biggest problem with the end of games is that our best free throw shooters (MW, Dinos, Crawford) are our worst defenders (really just MW and Dinos), while our best defenders (Codi, Watson, Crab, Devin), aren't really good free throw shooters.

That is almost always going to yield itself to closer games than necessary.
 
I feel strangely confident with DT taking a rebound up the court and making the right decision. I know there have been a couple of TOs but it seems that we've gotten way more cheap points out of it.

I feel the same way about this. It seems like most of the time he takes it the length of the court the opposing team just doesn't know how to react to someone of Devin's size taking the ball straight to the basket. It's also just hilarious to see him do it.
 
It was a big night for Crawford and Dinos. Agree on #9, especially if he continues to shoot poorly. I'm really surprised he is not a good defender, it looks like he had the body type to cause problems on the ball.

Is DT the best big man in the ACC? He is putting up numbers against everyone. And I actually don't feel that uncomfortable with him dribbling from half court to the hole, he is almost always in control.

I don't know if our defense is good enough to win enough conference games for a real shot at the dance. But we have the toughness and heart, this team never quits when down.

Spoke volumes to me that the announcers were hyping up Brice Johnson as POY but later showed his numbers were identical to Devin's.
 
The goal is to win the game, doesn't really matter how much.

We just need to get the ball into the right hands. Crab seems to miss a lot of free throws towards the end of the game, and Watson was clearly in for defensive purposes, but wound up with the ball in his hands.

The biggest problem with the end of games is that our best free throw shooters (MW, Dinos, Crawford) are our worst defenders (really just MW and Dinos), while our best defenders (Codi, Watson, Crab, Devin), aren't really good free throw shooters.

That is almost always going to yield itself to closer games than necessary.

Not if we want to improve our kenpom rating
 
DT is the heart and soul of this team. He plays with more fire than anyone (even if he does scorch his own occasionally). Not sure who can take his place next year, maybe Crawford.

I think we need Crawford and Thomas on the floor together as much as possible for the remainder of the season.
 
Back
Top