News and Observer's Luke DeCock talks about Bzzz

[Turd Ferguson]

I try to look at it from a BOT perspective. Everyone can laugh off the fact that we supposedly had a "culture problem." But I guarantee you, no matter what actually happened or who was at fault, when the BOT caught wind of that 09 incident, they were NOT pleased. They probably told Wellman that Dino better be down to his last strike right there, or else Wellman himself would be gone. The ass-hatery continued the next year, no doubt, a lot of which we probably never heard about, along with another flame out on the court and Wellman made his move. Everything that has happened since, Woods, Tabb, JTT, Walker, has just reinforced what the BOT had suspected, that the damn bball program was a ticking time bomb that could do serious long-term damage to the university's reputation. The Woods incident in particular probably horrified them and solidified their position that men's basketball needed new priorities and a new direction. They are probably thanking their lucky stars that they were ahead of the curve a bit and the university somehow narrowly escaped becoming a major national embarassment.

Again, this is not just any institution. This is Wake Forest. To compare the state of our program, to say, NC State as Shake did is totally missing the point. The university takes pride in holding higher standards and they take that very seriously. Of course they are not going to be happy with a losing basketball program, but I'm sure that is priority #2 in their eyes.

What would be really sweet is if we could be smug AND good all at the same time:thumbsup:

 

[ABCDeac]

I try to look at it from a BOT perspective. Everyone can laugh off the fact that we supposedly had a "culture problem." But I guarantee you, no matter what actually happened or who was at fault, when the BOT caught wind of that 09 incident, they were NOT pleased. They probably told Wellman that Dino better be down to his last strike right there, or else Wellman himself would be gone. The ass-hatery continued the next year, no doubt, a lot of which we probably never heard about, along with another flame out on the court and Wellman made his move. Everything that has happened since, Woods, Tabb, JTT, Walker, has just reinforced what the BOT had suspected, that the damn bball program was a ticking time bomb that could do serious long-term damage to the university's reputation. The Woods incident in particular probably horrified them and solidified their position that men's basketball needed new priorities and a new direction. They are probably thanking their lucky stars that they were ahead of the curve a bit and the university somehow narrowly escaped becoming a major national embarassment.

Again, this is not just any institution. This is Wake Forest. To compare the state of our program, to say, NC State as Shake did is totally missing the point. The university takes pride in holding higher standards and they take that very seriously. Of course they are not going to be happy with a losing basketball program, but I'm sure that is priority #2 in their eyes.

This is a warped point of view. Unfortunately, most people outside of the Southeast assume you mean "Lake Forest" when you say you went to school at Wake Forest. We are not Georgetown - in terms of academics, prestige, etc. - and they had a much more questionable "culture" for years. It didn't impact that reputation amongst the people that matter. If the "this is Wake Forest" mindset is winning out, then we simply will have settled for being an "occasional overachiever" in both football and basketball. That is troubling.

 

[RJKarl]

I agree that Gaudio's team was questionable (to put it lightly) off the court. If it wasn't, then why, after all this manure has been piled onto his name, hasn't Dino come out and said "that never happened" or "things were not nearly as bad as they have been made out to be"? That said, there was no reason for the pendulum to swing so far back the other way that we begin to resemble a bad YMCA team with kids who try their darnedest but gosh aren't they well rounded citizens.

By being quiet Dino is the coach who had a good record at Wake. By talking about it people would start questioning his ability to judge players in the future.

Getting fired was the best thing that could have happened for Dino's future. He left with a good record. Had he stayed a year and lost 20+ games, his chances of getting another job would have been greatly diminished.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

[/B]

This is a warped point of view. Unfortunately, most people outside of the Southeast assume you mean "Lake Forest" when you say you went to school at Wake Forest. We are not Georgetown - in terms of academics, prestige, etc. - and they had a much more questionable "culture" for years. It didn't impact that reputation amongst the people that matter. If the "this is Wake Forest" mindset is winning out, then we simply will have settled for being an "occasional overachiever" in both football and basketball. That is troubling.

I have come to believe that the old timers that run our program must have all gone to school during the Tacy/Staak years, and have decided that "losing with class" is not only the best we can hope for, but somehow an integral part of what it means to be a Demon Deacon.

This whole idea that we have to choose between a winning program and a clean program is fucking retarded.

 

[TBR]

I have come to believe that the old timers that run our program must have all gone to school during the Tacy/Staak years, and have decided that "losing with class" is not only the best we can hope for, but somehow an integral part of what it means to be a Demon Deacon.

This whole idea that we have to choose between a winning program and a clean program is fucking retarded.

If that's the choice then we ought to climb onto an even higher high horse and de-emphasize athletics Chicago style.

 

[TwentyONE]

I don't think anyone was saying that the program was in good shape or that Gaudio should have stayed, but simply pointing out that at the time we were improving (record-wise) and had a highly rated class coming in. If RW saw something beneath all that, so be it, but to act like our program was perceived nationally that way is revisionist history.

P.S. Hiring and extending Dino is on Ron, too.

The program was certainly not perceived that way nationally at the time of Dino's firing, that's what made it all the more difficult from a PR perspective. He had to use post-season record as a reason. I'm no insider, but I would guess that it didnt matter to the BOT, the President, and by extension Wellman. They saw things going on that had the potential to embarrass the university. They knew about the 09 incident. When shit started coming home to roost, then Wellman started talking publicly about culture problems. This is all beside the point of whether or not Bz was the right hire. I don't see why its so far-fetched.

 

[TBR]

The program was certainly not perceived that way nationally at the time of Dino's firing, that's what made it all the more difficult from a PR perspective. He had to use post-season record as a reason. I'm no insider, but I would guess that it didnt matter to the BOT, the President, and by extension Wellman. They saw things going on that had the potential to embarrass the university. They knew about the 09 incident. When shit started coming home to roost, then Wellman started talking publicly about culture problems. This is all beside the point of whether or not Bz was the right hire. I don't see why its so far-fetched.

The President and BOT would have approved the extension that Wellman negotiated with Dino. Either Wellman kept stuff from those parties or they didn't consider any issues to be a particularly big deal (because they weren't).

 

[WakeHornet]

From the Katz article Potent linked earlier --

"Athletic directors should take their cues from Wake Forest's Ron Wellman.

He doesn't give you spin. He tells you why he did what he did, and he won't hide.

If you're going to fire someone, just do it and say why.

Wellman did.

"The decision was based on the overall performance the past three years," Wellman said. "I looked at our February and March records and how the performances declined rather dramatically. We were 16-17 in February in those three years and in March 4-7, and 1-6 in postseason play, including the ACC tournament. In six of those losses, we were the higher-seeded team or better seeded in five of those losses. Yet the games weren't even close.""

Also of note, "Wellman went on to say how much Gaudio handled the academic side of Wake Forest and that he was a fine representative of the university."

Culture is never referenced, nor is the word said.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/5067873

 

[PotentPotables]

I disagree with with the idea that our program was in great shape under Gaudio. Time was running out on Gaudio and Wellman saw that along with things we can only surmise. The program was breaking under Gaudio, it was not healthy. Another year we would have been in despair there too. I would have been better to let that happen than make an uninspired hire it seems. Ol Dino's head coaching record is worse than almost anyone before Wake and he was living on borrowed capital from Skip. One does not need to justify the despair we are experiencing by elevating Gaudio. One more year and the wheels would have flown off our program. The trouble was with the new hire. We needed someone more dynamic and personable, and capable to get us over the retooling. We did not get it and that is on Wellman.

What we were initially sold on was "the program is fine, we just need to replace the head coach for late-season/post-season troubles."

Pretty much everyone at that time was behind that decision with that reason; we all just assumed Ron had a major upgrade from Dino lined up.

 

[ProbationDeac]

By being quiet Dino is the coach who had a good record at Wake. By talking about it people would start questioning his ability to judge players in the future.

Getting fired was the best thing that could have happened for Dino's future. He left with a good record. Had he stayed a year and lost 20+ games, his chances of getting another job would have been greatly diminished.

Apparantly losing 20 games in a season doesn't stop Wellman from hiring you. Bz lost 20 games in his first year at Colorado, 22 his second season and lost 16 his 3rd season there.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

The program was certainly not perceived that way nationally at the time of Dino's firing, that's what made it all the more difficult from a PR perspective. He had to use post-season record as a reason. I'm no insider, but I would guess that it didnt matter to the BOT, the President, and by extension Wellman. They saw things going on that had the potential to embarrass the university. They knew about the 09 incident. When shit started coming home to roost, then Wellman started talking publicly about culture problems. This is all beside the point of whether or not Bz was the right hire. I don't see why its so far-fetched.

So you're saying this part of the Katz article might be a little off?

None of that was the reasoning for firing Gaudio. Wellman was direct in saying that it was the late-season on-court performance. Too often, athletic directors don't want to stand up and say why they are making a decision. They want to be everyone's best friend and don't want to appear to have blood on their hands.

If you're going to fire someone, just do it and say why.

 

[ProbationDeac]

So you're saying this part of the Katz article might be a little off?

None of that was the reasoning for firing Gaudio. Wellman was direct in saying that it was the late-season on-court performance. Too often, athletic directors don't want to stand up and say why they are making a decision. They want to be everyone's best friend and don't want to appear to have blood on their hands.

If you're going to fire someone, just do it and say why.

Reminds me of the Iraq war where the justifications kept changing.

 

[RJKarl]

Apparantly losing 20 games in a season doesn't stop Wellman from hiring you. Bz lost 20 games in his first year at Colorado, 22 his second season and lost 16 his 3rd season there.

As much of a mismatch Dino vs. [Redacted] in attire is, there's even a bigger difference as a coach in [Redacted]'s favor.

 

[TBR]

As much of a mismatch Dino vs. [Redacted] in attire is, there's even a bigger difference as a coach in [Redacted]'s favor.

You keep telling yourself this despite the complete lack of evidence.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

If that's the choice then we ought to climb onto an even higher high horse and de-emphasize athletics Chicago style.

I actually agree with this. If we are not interesting in competing at the highest D1 level, then we should drop out of the ACC and play some SoCon teams.

 

[Atlanta Deacon]

This is all revisionist history PR from the athletic department. The program was in decline but it certainly wasn't broke. Gaudio was not the man and RW never liked him. RW whipped his dick out and made a move to bring in Bz. He kept the WHOLE STAFF. You don't keep the staff of an out of control program. Bz failed to keep the team together, kids got in trouble and this new story was created to explain the failure.

 

[TwentyONE]

[/B]

This is a warped point of view. Unfortunately, most people outside of the Southeast assume you mean "Lake Forest" when you say you went to school at Wake Forest. We are not Georgetown - in terms of academics, prestige, etc. - and they had a much more questionable "culture" for years. It didn't impact that reputation amongst the people that matter. If the "this is Wake Forest" mindset is winning out, then we simply will have settled for being an "occasional overachiever" in both football and basketball. That is troubling.

It is definitely troubling to big sports fans who pay/donate their hard-earned cash, yes. But it doesn't really matter what mentality you or I adopt.

G-town is an interesting example. There were all out wars between JT and their board over "culture." JT won out casts a very long shadow in DC and he strong arms people. But he was also a diciplinarian and for the most part was able to control his players.

 

[ProbationDeac]

As much of a mismatch Dino vs. [Redacted] in attire is, there's even a bigger difference as a coach in [Redacted]'s favor.

Yeah coaching records are overrated.

 

[TwentyONE]

The President and BOT would have approved the extension that Wellman negotiated with Dino. Either Wellman kept stuff from those parties or they didn't consider any issues to be a particularly big deal (because they weren't).

We all know why he got an extension. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it came with a caveat. And it certainly didnt prevent Wellman from firing him a year later. But I don't know. What I would bet my life on is that no one on the BOT heard about the 09 thing and thought, eh, no big deal.

 

[deacvision7]

ALL OF THE ILLEGAL THINGS OCCURRED WHEN JEFF [Redacted] WAS THE HEAD COACH OF THESE PLAYERS


I do give him a pass for Tony Woods, tho.