Nice knowing you Johnny

[Lectro]

Well at least John can further educate us on the "two Americas"...the one behind bars and the one with an un-impeded view.


Ahhh, but what am I thinking? In the "two Americas" guys like John Edwards don't make their way to the slammer. Perhaps a book and a guest slot with Eliot Spitzer.

 

[jhmd2000]

That's a tough one. as a VP. Edwards is a scumbag, but I'd rather have him a heartbeat from being POTUS than Palin. She's an absolute idiot and not a good person either.

She's no Johnny Reid Edwards, that's for sure.

 

[1976Deac]

This poster believed and supported John Edwards. I changed my mind after the girlfriend surfaced. However, banging the girlfriend and being a scum bucket is obviously different from being guilty of federal criminal charges.

Being someone the U.S. Attorney spent five years trying to indict for similar criminal charges that I never did, I believe I'll wait to see how this plays out before I assume him to be guilty of the criminal charges.

 

[PhDeac]

So, in retrospect, who is the "better" VP candidate - Edwards in '04 or Palin in '08?

Add Lieberman in '00 and Quayle in '88 and '92 to round out the poll.

Never liked Edwards from when he ran for senator.

 

[jhmd2000]

This poster believed and supported John Edwards. I changed my mind after the girlfriend surfaced. However, banging the girlfriend and being a scum bucket is obviously different from being guilty of federal criminal charges.

Being someone the U.S. Attorney spent five years trying to indict for similar criminal charges that I never did, I believe I'll wait to see how this plays out before I assume him to be guilty of the criminal charges.

I am sorry to hear about your experience; that doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

As to this case, what's the argument that Bunny Mellon intended this as a gift?
A) Contemporaneous gift tax return? Bets on that?
B) What was her intention for it: to make him the President, or to hide his denied girlfriend and his denied baby from wife? I would like to see her take the stand and swear that was her understanding and intention, b/c that would require her to state she was handing over almost a million dollars of inherited money to support a cover-up of his secret baby from his dying wife. That ought to just roll right off the tongue, right?
C) Her memo says to avoid government "interference."* That's pretty damning if you ask me.
D) How many million dollar gifts does she fund for already wealthy, private citizens that aren't running for President?

* One has to savor the irony in a serious contender for the nomination of the party of big, all-providing government raising money with the stated intention of skirting government regulation and interference.

 

[TheShot]

I am sorry to hear about your experience; that doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

As to this case, what's the argument that Bunny Mellon intended this as a gift?
A) Contemporaneous gift tax return? Bets on that?
B) What was her intention for it: to make him the President, or to hide his denied girlfriend and his denied baby from wife? I would like to see her take the stand and swear that was her understanding and intention, b/c that would require her to state she was handing over almost a million dollars of inherited money to support a cover-up of his secret baby from his dying wife. That ought to just roll right off the tongue, right?
C) Her memo says to avoid government "interference."* That's pretty damning if you ask me.
D) How many million dollar gifts does she fund for already wealthy, private citizens that aren't running for President?

* One has to savor the irony in a serious contender for the nomination of the party of big, all-providing government raising money with the stated intention of skirting government regulation and interference.

the best thing (for the prosecution) that i've seen is that e-mail where Mellon clearly states an interest in helping "the candidate" and that sending her the bills is the only way to help the candidate "without government restrictions."

as much as i dislke Edwards, still think it's a tough fight for the prosecution. a couple of conservative election lawyers express their skepticism in various news articles this morning--NYT and Politico, among others.

 

[RJKarl]

OOPS JHMD is WRONG AGIN:

"The money came from two Edwards supporters — his national campaign finance chairman, Fred Baron, who died in 2008, and banking heiress Rachel "Bunny" Mellon, who is 100. ... Mellon provided about $700,000. ... According to Mellon's attorney, she gave the money to Edwards as a personal gift and filed a gift tax return."

Given the taxes have been paid on this, how is there a case?

Yes Johnny is a scumbag, but if the person giving the money paid federal gift taxes on it, how can it be considered anything other than a gift?

 

[ONW]

OOPS JHMD is WRONG AGIN:

"The money came from two Edwards supporters — his national campaign finance chairman, Fred Baron, who died in 2008, and banking heiress Rachel "Bunny" Mellon, who is 100. ... Mellon provided about $700,000. ... According to Mellon's attorney, she gave the money to Edwards as a personal gift and filed a gift tax return."

Given the taxes have been paid on this, how is there a case?

Yes Johnny is a scumbag, but if the person giving the money paid federal gift taxes on it, how can it be considered anything other than a gift?

Who knew pornstars made such much money?

 

[KitchinDeac]

"Gift" under the tax code, and "contribution" under election laws, are not necessary mutually exclusive, I suppose. Moreover, her claimed subjective intent that this was a gift to Edwards, rather than a contribution to his effort to get the Dem nomination and be elected POTUS, does not make it so.

 

[TheShot]

OOPS JHMD is WRONG AGIN:

"The money came from two Edwards supporters — his national campaign finance chairman, Fred Baron, who died in 2008, and banking heiress Rachel "Bunny" Mellon, who is 100. ... Mellon provided about $700,000. ... According to Mellon's attorney, she gave the money to Edwards as a personal gift and filed a gift tax return."

Given the taxes have been paid on this, how is there a case?

Yes Johnny is a scumbag, but if the person giving the money paid federal gift taxes on it, how can it be considered anything other than a gift?

It's a case b/c the government has a different view of the purpose of the "gift." I can give a candidate a "gift" of a million dollars, but if the FEC determines that my actual purpose is to help that candidate's campaign in some way, then I've just broken federal election law b/c my "gift" has exceeded contribution limits.

that's the essence of the case--was the money intended to help Edwards further his campaign, by concealing his mistress. That's why the e-mails, which may reveal intent, are so important.

going to be a tough case to prove, I think.

 

[RJKarl]

"Gift" under the tax code, and "contribution" under election laws, are not necessary mutually exclusive, I suppose. Moreover, her claimed subjective intent that this was a gift to Edwards, rather than a contribution to his effort to get the Dem nomination and be elected POTUS, does not make it so.

Here's a question for the lawyer:

If the prosecutor had this evidence and didn't present it to the Grand Jury can he be sanctioned for not giving possibly exculpatory evidence?

Secondly, if she was willing to testify that it was a "gift" to keep the info from a sick Elizabeth and wasn't called, what's the situation?

In open court. Edwards' attorneys will put Mellon's attorney and accountant on the stand saying it was a personal gift. Then they will put Mellon on the stand (if she's still alive) to say the same thing.

I can't see how this won't be at least a hung jury on this count.

 

[TheShot]

Here's a question for the lawyer:

If the prosecutor had this evidence and didn't present it to the Grand Jury can he be sanctioned for not giving possibly exculpatory evidence?

Secondly, if she was willing to testify that it was a "gift" to keep the info from a sick Elizabeth and wasn't called, what's the situation?

In open court. Edwards' attorneys will put Mellon's attorney and accountant on the stand saying it was a personal gift. Then they will put Mellon on the stand (if she's still alive) to say the same thing.

I can't see how this won't be at least a hung jury on this count.

again, just because Edwards and Mellon claim it was a "gift" doesn't mean the government has to agree.

The Mellon e-mail is a problem for the defense. This happened after Edwards was criticized for the $400 haircut.

Mellon writes: “I was sitting alone in a grim mood – furious that the press attacked Senator Edwards on the price of a haircut. But it inspired me – from now on, all haircuts, etc., that are necessary and important for his campaign – please send the bills to me….It is a way to help our friend without government restrictions.”

That sounds like someone trying to spend money in order to further a candidate and a campaign. Paying to conceal the mistress falls under this heading, according to the government's interpretation.

 

[TheShot]

Also, Mellon's mention of "without government restrictions" is troubling, because it seems to indicate a knowledge of campaign finance restrictions, and further acknowledgement that she viewed this as an effort to circumvent them.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

His diddling and law breaking aside, I'm always amused when people can't see people for the phonies that they are. There was never anything authentic about John Edwards. Ever. Whether he had a D or an R next to his name really isn't an issue, since there are plenty from both sides that fit the bill. But Edwards was such an obvious phony that I really think people had to have been blind not to see it.

And I'm not simply talking about the inherent phoniness or egotism that comes with politicians. I'm talking about the guy being made of fucking plastic and bullshit.

 

[LilburnDeac]

Who are some other people that you see as phonies?

 

[DeacinBama]

DeacinBama wrote: So, in retrospect, who is the "better" VP candidate - Edwards in '04 or Palin in '08?

Add Lieberman in '00 and Quayle in '88 and '92 to round out the poll.

Never liked Edwards from when he ran for senator.

Not sure Quayle qualifies considering his team won at least once. Lieberman seems like a distant 3rd behind these other clowns.

 

[PhDeac]

Not sure Quayle qualifies considering his team won at least once. Lieberman seems like a distant 3rd behind these other clowns.

Just talking about jokes at VP. The fact Quayle actually was VP bumps him up the list. But at least he's long disappeared from the spotlight.

ELC nailed it about Edwards.
My out of NC friends used to think it was weird that I hated him when he was nationally considered a star.

 

[jhmd2000]

OOPS JHMD is WRONG AGIN:

"The money came from two Edwards supporters — his national campaign finance chairman, Fred Baron, who died in 2008, and banking heiress Rachel "Bunny" Mellon, who is 100. ... Mellon provided about $700,000. ... According to Mellon's attorney, she gave the money to Edwards as a personal gift and filed a gift tax return."

Given the taxes have been paid on this, how is there a case?

Yes Johnny is a scumbag, but if the person giving the money paid federal gift taxes on it, how can it be considered anything other than a gift?

The existence of a gift tax return is of course not conclusive, particularly when she writes in her own hand the exact opposite intention about the "candidate."

The legal standard of a gift is "detached and disinterested generosity." That's the law.

Is that what you believed happened, RJ?

 

[jhmd2000]

Here's a question for the lawyer:

If the prosecutor had this evidence and didn't present it to the Grand Jury can he be sanctioned for not giving possibly exculpatory evidence?

Secondly, if she was willing to testify that it was a "gift" to keep the info from a sick Elizabeth and wasn't called, what's the situation?

In open court. Edwards' attorneys will put Mellon's attorney and accountant on the stand saying it was a personal gift. Then they will put Mellon on the stand (if she's still alive) to say the same thing.

I can't see how this won't be at least a hung jury on this count.

If they want to avoid a hung jury, the need to impanel Anthony Weiner.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

Who are some other people that you see as phonies?

Perhaps none as big as Edwards, but two guys from Hope, Arkansas (Clinton and Huckabee) come to mind. Liddy Dole is another.