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Non-Political Coronavirus Thread

bym051d said:
Here’s a question I think I know the answer to, but would love an expert opinion.

If you were in a vaccine study, even if you have antibodies to the virus, that doesn’t necessarily mean you have a. Been vaccinated (could’ve been from exposure) or b. Received the recommended dosage volume, number or time in-between (might know this one). It’s not until you’ve been unblinded, that you’ll know for sure.

It might be that you received a smaller volume of the vaccine for dose 1 and saline for dose 2. You’d still have antibodies, but not reflect the 95% efficacy that people who get 2 doses of the recommended volume would.
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The answer to your first question is it depends on the test being used. This was actually something I was working on a little while ago. The vaccine is specifically targeted to a region of the spike protein, a prime testing protein is to use a recombinant protein of the spike protein, so if you use an antibody test ELISA, Luminex, RDT lateral flow test that has single detection of spike protein then there is no ability to distinguish between vaccine and natural infection. However if you use a test with another antigen, such as the nucleocapsid protein or even better a test that uses both nucleocapsid and spike protein you would be able to tell. (Caveat for some reason in Africa populations there is a ton of non-specific cross-reactivity and you need 3+ targets for accurate serological testing). So say you had spike (Sp) and nucleocapsid (Nc) targets, the outcomes could be
1. No reaction to either = No exposure
2. Reaction to the Sp and not Nc = Vaccinated
3. Reaction to Nc and Sp = infected with the virus

Second question is depends on the phase of the trial, by Phase 2 and 3 you aren't usually deviating from the recommended forms. This was rushed so fast that things like dosing were kind of just best guessed from previous studies and animal studies (in the future i think we will learn that its way too high of a dose, especially in the younger healthy crowd, but it worked so went with it). Studies aren't controlled where two doses in compared to one dose require saline as a second dose. It would be first dose saline, first dose vaccine, then a different group first dose saline, first dose vaccine, second dose saline, second dose vaccine. Compare between groups and doses. Also once the efficacy numbers are reached, enough people in placebo group are sick then its free to be unblinded. While the vaccine group will be monitored and data collected for the next few years, knowing you have or don't have the vaccine no longer is important so all vaccine participants in the approved vaccines know now.
 
leftcoastdeac said:
How do antibodies acquired from previous infection differ from antibodies acquired from vaccination?

In the case of a person who recovered from a mild case of COVID, how does the vaccine response compliment/boost/interact with the antibodies developed from infection?
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Its basically a boost of neutralizing spike antibodies. If you previously had covid think of that as a dirty vaccine shot, then your first true vaccine shot as a booster, and your second vaccine shot as a booster booster. Any antibodies that aren't related to the spike protein would have bystander effect at most, but actually may contract further and crowded out by the vaccine response. The dosing from the initial infection along with time since infection would just relate to the starting magnitude you are boosting from but would have no real effect on vaccine efficacy.

Also I would like to point out that people talk about antibodies as if they are what you are increasing the number of, but antibodies are the result and the measurable from a list of cellular responses. So when you talk about boosting its to generate more memory B cell, long lived plasma cells, and short lived plasma cells. Antibody concentrations will decrease over time as soon as the antigen is removed from the equation. The antibody IgG, probably most important for Covid infection, has a half-life of 21 days. You will pump out tons of IgG from a single plasma cell, so what you want is more plasma cells or memory B cells that can turn into plasma cells.
 
So I got vaccinated 72 hours ago first dose..... If I got COVID now would I probably no longer die (if I would have sans vaccine) cause of partial protection?
 
Haven't seen this posted in here, but read an article last week that said that the long-haulers who got the vaccine started feeling much better after the shot.
 
Got my second Pfizer shot yesterday and I feel great this morning. After the first shot I was sluggish and my arm hurt the next day. I feel zero discomfort today.

I'm guessing that means that I'm now invisible and my body can easily pwn that weak ass COVID
 
stugotz said:
Haven't seen this posted in here, but read an article last week that said that the long-haulers who got the vaccine started feeling much better after the shot.
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That's interesting - I was really ill for 10 days at the end of January 2020 and have been in sort of a physical and mental fog since (one of our daughters was even worse at the same time and tested negative for flu and strep). I got my first Moderna shot on 3/2/21 and the fog lifted in a couple of days.

Oh yeah, one of our neighbors traveled to Italy in 10/19 and came home sicker than he'd ever been in his life.
 
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WFU71 said:
That's interesting - I was really ill for 10 days at the end of January 2020 and have been in sort of a physical and mental fog since (one of our daughters was even worse at the same time and tested negative for flu and strep). I got my first Moderna shot on 3/2/21 and the fog lifted in a couple of days.

Oh yeah, one of our neighbors traveled to Italy in 10/19 and came home sicker than he'd ever been in his life.
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Very similar experience. Had the mother of all sinus infections last February and have complained to doc about brain fog for the better part of the last year. Multiple PCR tests over summer and fall and always negative though.
 
got Moderna #1 yesterday and I'm starting to feel kinda woozy

I wanted an antibody test pre-vax for vanity purposes, but I guess I can gauge my body response to vax 1 vs. 2 to know if I had an asymptomatic case in 2020 -- decent chance I might have given time spent with my SIL who tested positive

to that end, a question: if one had an asymptomatic case of Covid, what does the data say on whether or not they may have a symptomatic response to shot 1 of an mRNA vax?
 
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Probably more likely to have systemic side effects. But not serious (life-threatening) reactions.

Yes, general advice is no need to screen for antibodies and you'd most likely benefit from the vaccination even if you have been infected. Probably reasonable (but not necessary) to wait 90 days from your infection since likely you're not going to get reinfected in that timeframe.

But I think the data is pretty sparse.
 
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If you cared about knowing if you were ever infected just get an antibody test that tests for more than one antigen, or you know tests for anything but spike protein. It would be included with any manufacture’s testing information. Feel bad in Feb, hmm maybe, Jan ehhh getting their, Dec getting warmer, Nov- almost their, Oct- you are completely full of shit and didn’t have covid.
 
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