Obama's air strike plans in disarray after Britain rejects use of force in Syria

[Shorty]

Maybe you should look at the bankers thread where I said Obama failed miserably...NAH

Obama backed down? Are you kidding? Putin has to make his puppet in Syria kiss Obama's feet. Neither Assad nor Putin had ever admitted there were chemical weapons in Syria. Now they are going to be taken out and destroyed.

We made Syria and Russia capitulate without a shot being fired.

This happened because Obama talked loudly and was willing to back it up with a big stick.

Well, that's certainly one way of looking at it. A purely myopic, naive, partisan way. But it's a way.

 

[jhmd2000]

Well, that's certainly one way of looking at it. A purely myopic, naive, partisan way. But it's a way.

+1

This Karl fellow is full-blown, YesWeCan-knee pad toting delusional. He had daily litters of kittens when Bush spied on terrorists, but has no problem with Obama drone-striking U.S. citizens without due process.

Monica Lewinsky wonders when RJ will grow some dignity.

 

[RJKarl]

Well, that's certainly one way of looking at it. A purely myopic, naive, partisan way. But it's a way.

There's nothing myopic about it. Had he not threatened to strike Syria with or without Congress, why would they give up their weapons?

Until a week ago, they denied even having them and Putin was behind them.

My bad, Putin would have offered up Assad if Obama had said "pretty please."

 

[aocs3281]

This is war. What matters is making the right decision, not the polemical speculations about who is motivated by what.

There's nothing myopic about it. Had he not threatened to strike Syria with or without Congress, why would they give up their weapons?

Until a week ago, they denied even having them and Putin was behind them.

My bad, Putin would have offered up Assad if Obama had said "pretty please."

If you're right about Obama's position of strength the inventory and collection process should go smoothly.

 

[RJKarl]

Nothing ever goes smoothly. There will be hiccups until it's finished. And every hiccup you'll blame on Obama, but when it's finished you'll give everyone else on the planet props other than Obama.

However, Syria has sent the UN a signed copy of the chemical weapons ban treaty. The most recent document was signed by every country in the world with the exception of Syria and four others (this was shown pages earlier on this thread).

But, of course, this is of no consequence to you. Nor was the fact that Obama and Putin discussed this at the G20 or that they passed it on to the SOS and their FM.

 

[Junebug]

Nothing ever goes smoothly. There will be hiccups until it's finished. And every hiccup you'll blame on Obama, but when it's finished you'll give everyone else on the planet props other than Obama.

However, Syria has sent the UN a signed copy of the chemical weapons ban treaty. The most recent document was signed by every country in the world with the exception of Syria and four others (this was shown pages earlier on this thread).

But, of course, this is of no consequence to you. Nor was the fact that Obama and Putin discussed this at the G20 or that they passed it on to the SOS and their FM.

God, you are such a shill. Do you even believe yourself?

 

[RJKarl]

Shill =telling the truth to you.

Until the end of this week was Syria one of only five countries not to have signed the treaty? Absolute and undeniable truth. There is no way around this fact.

Does the implementation of any major treaty or major law ever go smoothly and without hiccups? Not that I've ever seen/

Did Obama and Putin discuss this process at the G20 before the rest of the world knew about it? Absolutely. This has been reported on every network.

Did Obama tell Kerry to continue the discussions and Did Putin tell Lavrov the same? Did they meet before the announcement and did they meet in Geneva about this? Yes and Yes.

Each thing I said is absolutely true. I know you, aocs and your extreme RW buddies don't like to deal with the truth, but each of those points is unequivocally true.

 

[Junebug]

Shill =telling the truth to you.

Until the end of this week was Syria one of only five countries not to have signed the treaty? Absolute and undeniable truth. There is no way around this fact.

Does the implementation of any major treaty or major law ever go smoothly and without hiccups? Not that I've ever seen/

Did Obama and Putin discuss this process at the G20 before the rest of the world knew about it? Absolutely. This has been reported on every network.

Did Obama tell Kerry to continue the discussions and Did Putin tell Lavrov the same? Did they meet before the announcement and did they meet in Geneva about this? Yes and Yes.

Each thing I said is absolutely true. I know you, aocs and your extreme RW buddies don't like to deal with the truth, but each of those points is unequivocally true.

Truth? The administration was saved from itself by an idiot with a political plum who is unable to stick to script. And thank God for his buffoonery, but let's not pretend the administration did anything other than stumble into a solution.

 

[RJKarl]

But you aren't a shill?

My bad, to you Obama is a combination of a Keystone Cop and the anti-Christ...

But you voted for W.....hmmmmm

 

[Wrangor]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...-chemical-weapons-deal-as-a-victory-for-syria

One day after the United States and Russia announced a deal to rid Syria of its chemical weapons, the first official reaction has emerged from the Syrian regime, which calls it a "victory." Syria's rebels are criticizing the plan, saying it doesn't punish President Bashar Assad.

The plan, which details the extent of Syria's chemical weapons arsenal, calls for the weapons' destruction by the middle of next year. As we reported Saturday, Secretary of State John Kerry, who brokered the deal in Geneva with his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov, said that "there can be no games" to avoid full compliance.

"We welcome these agreements," Syrian National Reconciliation Minister Ali Haidar tells Russian news agency RIA Novosti. "On the one hand, they will help Syrians come out of the crisis, and on the other hand, they prevented the war against Syria by having removed a pretext for those who wanted to unleash it [war]."

Crediting the work of Russia's leaders, Haidar said, "This is a victory for Syria won thanks to our Russian friends."

Before that statement came out Sunday, Syria's state news agency, SANA, had restricted itself to announcing the U.S.-Russia agreement and noting the lack of an overt military threat.

A central figure in Syria's rebellion spoke out against the U.S-Russia plan Saturday. The rebels, who have been trying to oust Assad for more than two years, had been calling for air strikes against the Syrian government.

"Rebel Gen. Salim Idriss stated his objections soon after the Geneva announcement," NPR's Deborah Amos reports for our Newscast unit. "He heads the Supreme Military Council, rebels backed by the West and Gulf Arab states. He said the agreement, which includes U.N. inspectors on the ground by November, allows the Syrian president to escape responsibility for killing hundreds of civilians in an alleged gas attack in August."

"What about the murderer Bashar who gave the order? Should we forget him?" Idriss said at a news conference in Istanbul. "We feel let down by the international community. We don't have any hope."

Rebels have also complained that Syria has been moving its chemical weapons around, perhaps even into neighboring countries, to frustrate attempts to catalog and destroy the arsenal.

In Israel, where U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry traveled to discuss the deal, the U.S.-Russia plan met with muted enthusiasm.

"We hope the understandings bear fruit. Those understandings will be judged by the results," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Sunday. President Shimon Peres said that "a disarmament agreement backed up by military threat should serve as a lesson to Iranian leaders."

The Israeli leadership addressed the question of Syria during Sunday's commemoration of the 40th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War.

Good thing Obama scared those Russians and Syrians into giving up their weapons. They look TERRIFIED. Obama got played. We are now neutered from imposing any sanctions or any retributions in the future without looking irrational (assuming Assad doesn't use WMD in the future). Assad can go on killing the rebels, and Russian comes out smelling like Rose (as well as bolstering their street cred with any allies they might have). Russia went toe to toe with the American President and backed him off, brokered a deal favorable to Russia (and Syria), and then shoved in our faces in our own media.

Incredible.

 

[RJKarl]

So you expected them to day "here they are come get thim"?

 

[Shorty]

So you expected them to day "here they are come get thim"?

No, I didn't expect them to day "here they are come get thim"

 

[avalon]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...-chemical-weapons-deal-as-a-victory-for-syria



Good thing Obama scared those Russians and Syrians into giving up their weapons. They look TERRIFIED. Obama got played. We are now neutered from imposing any sanctions or any retributions in the future without looking irrational (assuming Assad doesn't use WMD in the future). Assad can go on killing the rebels, and Russian comes out smelling like Rose (as well as bolstering their street cred with any allies they might have). Russia went toe to toe with the American President and backed him off, brokered a deal favorable to Russia (and Syria), and then shoved in our faces in our own media.

Incredible.

You don't buy Obama's spin on the situation, right? Why are you so quick to believe Assad's?

 

[RJKarl]

Because Wrongor believes ANYTHING and EVERYTHING negative about Obama no matter who the source is. He NEEDSto be wrong to justify his positions.

Even after overwhelming evidence that Wrongor's positions on Benghazi and the IRS non-scandal were categorically wrong, he wouldn't admit it.

He NEEDS this position to work out his way. Even when it doesn't he'll claim it did.

 

[Wrangor]

You don't buy Obama's spin on the situation, right? Why are you so quick to believe Assad's?

I don't believe Assad. What is there to believe? All I have said is that he is trumpeting this as a win and has launched more attacks. The rebels have said they were left out to dry. Is there anyone saying otherwise except for RJ?

 

[avalon]

I don't believe Assad. What is there to believe? All I have said is that he is trumpeting this as a win and has launched more attacks. The rebels have said they were left out to dry. Is there anyone saying otherwise except for RJ?

It seemed like you bought into the idea that Assad is thrilled with this situation, apologies if I misunderstood. Is it worth getting worked up if he is merely trumpeting this as a win, while handing over the weapons?

 

[Wrangor]

It seemed like you bought into the idea that Assad is thrilled with this situation, apologies if I misunderstood. Is it worth getting worked up if he is merely trumpeting this as a win, while handing over the weapons?

I think he knows he doesn't need chemical weapons to win. I think he knows that by signing the treaty he is granting himself internationally legitimacy. I think he knows the US wanted to bomb him and his big brother said no.

I am not sure what I am buying. Do you think he is unhappy with the result? What possible better outcome for Assad?

 

[Deacon923]

meanwhile, I heard on NPR this morning that Jane's Defence has done an analysis of the rebel groups and concluded that they are overwhelming Islamist groups, with almost half being Qaeda-affiliated or hardline Islamist, while only a small minority are secular or nationalist in character. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10311007/Syria-nearly-half-rebel-fighters-are-jihadists-or-hardline-Islamists-says-IHS-Janes-report.html

Not sure we should be doing anything that is more likely to bring this crew into power on the borders of our closest remaining allies in the region. If we can get the chemical weapons under control at least it will keep them out of the hands of Al-Qaeda when some government weapons base is inevitably breached.

 

[Wrangor]

meanwhile, I heard on NPR this morning that Jane's Defence has done an analysis of the rebel groups and concluded that they are overwhelming Islamist groups, with almost half being Qaeda-affiliated or hardline Islamist, while only a small minority are secular or nationalist in character. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10311007/Syria-nearly-half-rebel-fighters-are-jihadists-or-hardline-Islamists-says-IHS-Janes-report.html

Not sure we should be doing anything that is more likely to bring this crew into power on the borders of our closest remaining allies in the region. If we can get the chemical weapons under control at least it will keep them out of the hands of Al-Qaeda when some government weapons base is inevitably breached.

Yep. It is not a good situation. Best case scenario is to have a stable somewhat reasonable dictator in charge.

 

[avalon]

I think he knows he doesn't need chemical weapons to win. I think he knows that by signing the treaty he is granting himself internationally legitimacy. I think he knows the US wanted to bomb him and his big brother said no.

I am not sure what I am buying. Do you think he is unhappy with the result? What possible better outcome for Assad?

His family spent three decades amassing chemical weapons and he didn’t participate in any treaties that would make him give them up. Now he has to turn them over because his ally, that he is completely dependent on, told him to.

Better outcome? Any that lets him carry on as usual without getting bombed, really. Political turmoil in the US over the approval of an attack that put any on hold and took the attention off of Syria. World pressure to back off. Russia pushing the US back with military threats.

If Assad did use chemical weapons, what is the point of using them, other than a display of strength? And now that strength is being very publically taken away.

And that doesn’t get into the claim that the rebels set off the chemical weapons. THAT would be a major problem, if true.