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Official 2013-2014 NBA Thread: TIMOTHY THEODORE DUNCAN #5

Fuck Your Couch said:
The Heat drafted Dywane Wade. Why on Earth would he count against the luxury tax? The non-drafted players combined salaries don't go over the 70 million dollar tax line.
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I did NOT say that. I said you don't pay luxury tax if you are ONLY signing your OWN players. Once you start signing players from OTHER teams , it's the regular system.

The ONLY exception I am talking about is to keep the players you have drafted together. Which was the purpose of the Bird Rule.
 
RJKarl said:
I did NOT say that. I said you don't pay luxury tax if you are ONLY signing your OWN players. Once you start signing players from OTHER teams , it's the regular system.

The ONLY exception I am talking about is to keep the players you have drafted together. Which was the purpose of the Bird Rule.
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What? You can't have any other players on your team except those you drafted? Every team has non drafted players. I thought the whole point was not punishing people for drafting superstars.
 
That would actually be crazy. The heat could have had Westbrook, Durant, Harden, and Ibaka for max level deals, Reggie Jackson, Steven Adams, and Perry Jones on rookie contracts, and still had 50+ million for the remaining 4 spots on the roster. They could have put together a roster with effectively 8 max level guys
 
DRAFTING..not trading for...not signing as free agents...The Bird Rule was set up so that you could match payment for the players you developed and keep them. It didn't allow you to go over the cap to get players from other teams.
 
DeaconSig said:
That would actually be crazy. The heat could have had Westbrook, Durant, Harden, and Ibaka for max level deals, Reggie Jackson, Steven Adams, and Perry Jones on rookie contracts, and still had 50+ million for the remaining 4 spots on the roster. They could have put together a roster with effectively 8 max level guys
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That's NOT what I'm saying.....That's NOT what the Bird Rule did. ALL I am saying is you can keep your players and not pay the tax. You can't add other players.
 
Rj, I've really lost your argument. Somehow signing LeBron negates that the Heat drafted DWade? Does Kobe and his 30 million a year count against the luxury tax because the Hornets drafted him? How do draft day trades work? And even if that counts, is it negated because they signed Wesley Johnson and Xavier Henry in FA?
 
Does anyone but RJ understand what RJ is attempting to convey? Because I sure don't.
 
The 2012 Thunder had Derek Fisher, Nazr Mohammed, Kendrick Perkins... they didn't draft those players.
 
RJKarl said:
DRAFTING..not trading for...not signing as free agents...The Bird Rule was set up so that you could match payment for the players you developed and keep them. It didn't allow you to go over the cap to get players from other teams.
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I'm not seeing how your proposal will work:

While still on rookie deals...
Durant: $5M
Westbrook: $5M
Harden: $5M
Ibaka: $3M
11 other players: $52M
Total: $70M (luxury tax level right now is $72M)

So now what? Per the bird rule, the Thunder can keep all of these players.

So does it now look like:
Durant: $15M
Westbrook: $15M
Harden: $15M
Ibaka: $12M
11 other players: $52M
Total: $109M

So what's exempt from the luxury tax?
 
In all earnestness, the main thing I don't understand is the mechanism that determines if a player you drafted counts against the luxury tax or not. I think rj intends to have some demarcation between big ticket, mid-range to low ticket FAs, and the team using his new rule isn't allowed to add big ticket FAs that they didn't draft or they can't take their own superstars off the lux tax books.

I think...
 
WFU Lurker said:
I'm not seeing how your proposal will work:

While still on rookie deals...
Durant: $5M
Westbrook: $5M
Harden: $5M
Ibaka: $3M
11 other players: $52M
Total: $70M (luxury tax level right now is $72M)

So now what? Per the bird rule, the Thunder can keep all of these players.

So does it now look like:
Durant: $15M
Westbrook: $15M
Harden: $15M
Ibaka: $12M
11 other players: $52M
Total: $109M

So what's exempt from the luxury tax?
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YOU JUST DO IT! What's not to understand?!?
 
WFU Lurker said:
Westbrook strikes me as a pretty unique player himself.

The real answer is that they should have just fucking amnestied Perkins and dipped into the tax if they needed to. Could have been a dynasty. Really just insane thinking what they could have been with the second best player in the league, the best shooting guard in the league, a top 5 point guard, and a top 5 power forward (at least I guess Ibaka is top 5).
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Westbrook is athletic and a great player, but can you craft a defense with good to very good players to hold him for 40/45% shooting? I think you can. Harden you can design a scheme but if he is hitting his pick and roll and purposefully getting fouled on his euro step drives, you cannot stop him. Cannot. That's why I think he's a unique talent. Manu was that player for a few years. Tony Parker has a skill set that you can stop his drives but not his jumper or vice versa. There are number of other players who are unique talents like that. Westbrook, for me, is not one of those players.

The other thing I would point out that most franchises forget is that the Chicago Bulls went from awful to good to very good under Coach Collins and obviously with a young Michael Jordan. At some point, that organization decided that Collins had taken them as far as they could go and brought it Jackson. But most franchises these days this side of Golden State, right those horses a year or two too long. The Suns with Nash and Amare would be an example of that. Miami seemed to have made the right choice to replace the used car salesman looking guy with the Filipino kid. That worked out well too.
 
Jackson was one of Collins' assistants.

And if by "used car salesman guy" you mean Stan Van Gundy, no. Pat Riley replaced Van Gundy early on in their 05-06 championship year. Spoelstra then replaced Riley a couple years later.

Google! It's there!
 
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IrishSlim said:
Why have free agency at all?
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This wouldn't stop free agency.

If the players are already on the roster (like Perkins), they don't have any impact. They couldn't go out and sign anyone new for more than minimum unless they had an exception or was a draft choice.
 
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