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Official 2018 NBA Offseason Thread: the preseason cometh

deac29 said:
I mean, rsf argues Tatum>Simmons, then posts advanced stats to show Tatum>Kuzma, and those stats shows Simmons>>>Tatum.

Win shares: 9.2 v 7.1
ws/48: .162 v. .139
BPM: 4.6 v. 1.0
VORP: 4.6 v. 1.8

All in favor of Simmons. Just for shits, let add PER: 20.03 v. 15.29
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Enjoy those regular season stats. Loser player.
 
jordan vs. lebron really is the worst set of discourses in sports, huh?
 
RChildress107 said:
Statistical Peak: Lebron and Jordan are roughly even

Career averages: even, though Jordan will eventually come out ahead as I think Lebron will taper off eventually but loves the game too much to quit while he is still useful.

Winning: Jordan. 6>3, but Lebron doesn’t need 6 ships to match Jordan here since he has fewer losing seasons (1 vs 4), more finals (8 to 6), conference finals (10 to 8), and conference semis appearances (13 to 10).

Durability/Longevity: Already Lebron and the gap is only going to widen.


As of today I’d probably still go Jordan but outside of a career ending injury before 2020 it’s hard to imagine Lebron not overtaking him.
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Let's all agree to end it here. Great post.
 
palmab03 said:
100% > 37.5% you Lebron loving donks
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The “undefeated in the finals” argument is the dumbest part of the Jordan/Lebron debate. Getting to the finals and losing is better than not getting to the finals at all.

And even if you insist on taking the “if you’re not first you’re last” mentality then Jordan is 6 for 15 (or 6 for 19 if you are counting all seasons from beginning to end of his career). Lebron is 3 for 14.
 
RChildress107 said:
The “undefeated in the finals” argument is the dumbest part of the Jordan/Lebron debate. Getting to the finals and losing is better than not getting to the finals at all.

And even if you insist on taking the “if you’re not first you’re last” mentality then Jordan is 6 for 15 (or 6 for 19 if you are counting all seasons from beginning to end of his career). Lebron is 3 for 14.
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When the lights are the brightest, the Greatest of All Time delivers. The honorable mentions go 3 for 8.
 
RedSoxFaithful said:
unless he had to play the pistons first
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You didn't say this, but this reminds me of my favorite anti-Jordan arguments.

"Jordan had a lot of help with Rodman to do the dirty work." And the same people will say, "Jordan couldn't even get past the Pistons!"

Yeah. They had a younger Rodman.
 
PhDeac said:
You didn't say this, but this reminds me of my favorite anti-Jordan arguments.

"Jordan had a lot of help with Rodman to do the dirty work." And the same people will say, "Jordan couldn't even get past the Pistons!"

Yeah. They had a younger Rodman.
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in fairness, I painted a parallel yesterday between Jordan's early career struggles vs Detroit and LeBron's early career struggles vs Boston

It's a little strange how closely their careers mirror each other, just factoring in playoff success and overarching narratives
 
RedSoxFaithful said:
in fairness, I painted a parallel yesterday between Jordan's early career struggles vs Detroit and LeBron's early career struggles vs Boston

It's a little strange how closely their careers mirror each other, just factoring in playoff success and overarching narratives
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Right. Very similar. And pro-Jordan folks believe the differences give him an edge for now. Stayed with the Bulls and won 6 championships vs. left and came back and totaled 3.
 
PhDeac said:
Right. Very similar. And pro-Jordan folks believe the differences give him an edge for now. Stayed with the Bulls and won 6 championships vs. left and came back and totaled 3.
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Jordan left the Bulls and came back, he just didn’t win anything while he was gone.

Lebron deserves all the hate he gets for how he handled leaving, but that shouldn’t really factor into the GOAT debate.

Lebron has more early success with less help. Jordan finally broke through in year 7 in part because the Bulls surrounded him with a hall of fame sidekick and competent supporting cast. Lebron failed to breakthrough in year 7 in part because the Cavs didn’t. So Lebron found a team that could. Jordan likely would have done the same.
 
PhDeac said:
Not sure if you're serious or not. Those advanced stats were calculated using Jordan's stats from back in the day. Those stats were not commonly used back then. As best I can tell, PER was first developed around 2000 or so. Jordan couldn't look at his PER and Win Shares and adjust his game accordingly.
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omfg lol
 
i'm just dying thinking about some fucking nerd in the front office telling michael jordan to play better team defense because his boxsxore +/- is suffering. LOLOLOLOLOL
 
"hey, mj. maybe take less long 2s because it's really hurting your true shooting %."
 
palmab03 said:
When the lights are the brightest, the Greatest of All Time delivers. The honorable mentions go 3 for 8.
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is the stat I've seen on the internet today that MJ beat 20 50+ win playoff teams vs. 10 for Lebron true?
 
Probably. There haven’t been many 50 win teams in the East the last 15 years.
 
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