• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Official 2018 NBA Offseason Thread: the preseason cometh

AUsT.gif


Remember him? He is certainly worthy of being in the conversation.

Also here is a top 10 of all time list from this year and Mr. Paul is not on it.

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/ranking-point-guards-history-0-20180126
 
Paul is #13. Teague is #57 by the way.

Obviously any ranking based on championships won’t rank Paul highly.
 
RChildress107 said:
What was his greatest season?
Click to expand...

basketball-reference. Stockton was 1st team all-NBA in in 93-94 and 94-95, but he was 2nd team for 5 years before that, I think because Magic was always 1st team. He averaged over 12 assists a game for 7 or 8 years in a row, between 15-17 points per game. Missed like 4 games in 8 years. Had hands the size of a fucking baseball mitt.

His defense was way better than folks probably remember. He was always on the 1st or 2nd all defense team until he hit 35. Perhaps the most consistent NBA player of all time.

I never loved him because I was never a Karl Malone fan, but holy shit, in hindsight. The other crazy thing is I am pretty sure he could play backup point today. The dude aged like a fucking vampire. I bet you he plays 3 or 4 times per week.

The argument on here seems to be the youngs think the game is so much faster today than back then and to the olds, haven't seem to be bothered enough to look at a handful of games to determine if their hypothesis is even remotely accurate.

The olds like myself get caught up in waxing nostalgic and that is taken as a huge diss on the present. I personally don't consider it disrespectful of today's Warriors to compare them to one of the most exciting and successful teams of the 90s.

Honestly, I don't think Steph Curry or Durant or Klay would be either.

It is a fool's errand really to compare eras. The game was simply different. Rules were different. Coaching and the way games were called dictated a lot of isolation and pick and roll. Uber metrics weren't used to coach players on how to shoot from their most efficient spots. Where I believe the game has gotten better in those players deep on the bench today are simply better human beings than they used to be. Michael Ray Richardson ain't gonna hang in today's NBA for long, even if he could stroke it. He was a coke head. That don't fly today.

And as worked up as some on here get to, god forbid, comparing an elite Western Conference team from the 90s who never won a championship (Suns, Sea, Utah) to today's Warriors (who never had to beat a Jordan-led Bulls to win a championship), I would bet cash money that the Warriors themselves would be psyched to be compared to some of those 60+ win teams.

As for championships, if that is the pure measure, then the Warriors can only be compared to the old Lakers, the old Celtics, perhaps the Rockets, and more recently, the Spurs. Oh, and the Bulls of course. Those are the only teams who have done it 3+ times since Bird and Johnson laced em up.
 
RChildress107 said:
What’s the case for Oscar? Once you adjust for pace (to the extent we can for that era) his numbers are far less impressive.
Click to expand...

How do you "adjust" for assists being much, much harder to get back then? If your pass didn't lead directly to a shot, no fake, no dribbles on an outlet, you didn't get an assist?

How do you "adjust" for playing 9 games/year for many years versus all time greats like Jerry West, the Joneses in Boston, Hal Greer, Lenny Wilkens, Guy Rodgers? That's 45 games/year (and other greats later) against a Hall of Famer/Top 50 player.

How do you "adjust" down for playing versus far lesser players night after night?

Yes, certain all time greats can play in any generation. Run of the mill players can't play, but those guys were big enough, quick enough and good enough be superstars in any era.
 
RJKarl said:
How do you "adjust" for assists being much, much harder to get back then? If your pass didn't lead directly to a shot, no fake, no dribbles on an outlet, you didn't get an assist?

How do you "adjust" for playing 9 games/year for many years versus all time greats like Jerry West, the Joneses in Boston, Hal Greer, Lenny Wilkens, Guy Rodgers? That's 45 games/year (and other greats later) against a Hall of Famer/Top 50 player.

How do you "adjust" down for playing versus far lesser players night after night?

Yes, certain all time greats can play in any generation. Run of the mill players can't play, but those guys were big enough, quick enough and good enough be superstars in any era.
Click to expand...

i don't know why i'm doing this, but i'll try to engage honestly.

How do you "adjust" for assists being much, much harder to get back then? If your pass didn't lead directly to a shot, no fake, no dribbles on an outlet, you didn't get an assist?

how about you look at %-based stat? the big o's apg/league apg vs cp3 apg/league apg seems like a fair way to account for this.

How do you "adjust" for playing 9 games/year for many years versus all time greats like Jerry West, the Joneses in Boston, Hal Greer, Lenny Wilkens, Guy Rodgers? That's 45 games/year (and other greats later) against a Hall of Famer/Top 50 player.

How do you "adjust" down for playing versus far lesser players night after night?

Yes, certain all time greats can play in any generation. Run of the mill players can't play, but those guys were big enough, quick enough and good enough be superstars in any era.

to really answer this i think you need to look at % of nba players (or starting nba players) as a % of potential population who could play in the nba. so when the big o played there were only americans age 23 (?) - 40 (?) vs today there are players from x countries at x ages. seems like a fair way to account for the growth in the size of the league.
 
jaybone said:
basketball-reference. Stockton was 1st team all-NBA in in 93-94 and 94-95, but he was 2nd team for 5 years before that, I think because Magic was always 1st team. He averaged over 12 assists a game for 7 or 8 years in a row, between 15-17 points per game. Missed like 4 games in 8 years. Had hands the size of a fucking baseball mitt.

His defense was way better than folks probably remember. He was always on the 1st or 2nd all defense team until he hit 35. Perhaps the most consistent NBA player of all time.

I never loved him because I was never a Karl Malone fan, but holy shit, in hindsight. The other crazy thing is I am pretty sure he could play backup point today. The dude aged like a fucking vampire. I bet you he plays 3 or 4 times per week.

The argument on here seems to be the youngs think the game is so much faster today than back then and to the olds, haven't seem to be bothered enough to look at a handful of games to determine if their hypothesis is even remotely accurate.

The olds like myself get caught up in waxing nostalgic and that is taken as a huge diss on the present. I personally don't consider it disrespectful of today's Warriors to compare them to one of the most exciting and successful teams of the 90s.

Honestly, I don't think Steph Curry or Durant or Klay would be either.

It is a fool's errand really to compare eras. The game was simply different. Rules were different. Coaching and the way games were called dictated a lot of isolation and pick and roll. Uber metrics weren't used to coach players on how to shoot from their most efficient spots. Where I believe the game has gotten better in those players deep on the bench today are simply better human beings than they used to be. Michael Ray Richardson ain't gonna hang in today's NBA for long, even if he could stroke it. He was a coke head. That don't fly today.

And as worked up as some on here get to, god forbid, comparing an elite Western Conference team from the 90s who never won a championship (Suns, Sea, Utah) to today's Warriors (who never had to beat a Jordan-led Bulls to win a championship), I would bet cash money that the Warriors themselves would be psyched to be compared to some of those 60+ win teams.

As for championships, if that is the pure measure, then the Warriors can only be compared to the old Lakers, the old Celtics, perhaps the Rockets, and more recently, the Spurs. Oh, and the Bulls of course. Those are the only teams who have done it 3+ times since Bird and Johnson laced em up.
Click to expand...

no
 
What don’t some of you like about Stockton’s game? He was on the Dream Team. He led the league in assists for 9 years straight from his second year as a starter till he was Paul’s age. His numbers at that point were similar to Paul’s now except for scoring.
 
you're telling me this guy would be ok being compared to some no title 60-win team from 25 years ago?

 
PhDeac said:
What don’t some of you like about Stockton’s game? He was on the Dream Team. He led the league in assists for 9 years straight from his second year as a starter till he was Paul’s age. His numbers at that point were similar to Paul’s now except for scoring.
Click to expand...

probs that he actually made it to the finals.
 
jaybone said:
As for championships, if that is the pure measure, then the Warriors can only be compared to the old Lakers, the old Celtics, perhaps the Rockets, and more recently, the Spurs. Oh, and the Bulls of course. Those are the only teams who have done it 3+ times since Bird and Johnson laced em up.
Click to expand...

Pistons have won three in that time period too and two of them were straight up during that Lakers/Celts/Rockets/Bulls time period. Would love to see the late 80's Pistons go up against the Warriors.

And anybody who wants to belittle Zeke as a player obviously never saw him play.
 
Draymond would have been at home in the 80s and 90s. He’s the spiritual descendant of the Bad Boys teams. Draymond vs. Chuck on the court would have been awesome.
 
daaberry said:
AUsT.gif


Remember him? He is certainly worthy of being in the conversation.

Also here is a top 10 of all time list from this year and Mr. Paul is not on it.

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/ranking-point-guards-history-0-20180126
Click to expand...

He’s definitely in the conversation. It’s hard for me to take any ranking of PGs without Chris in the top 5 very seriously.

I’m kind of sympathetic to the argument that you can’t be in the GOAT conversation without a ring, but only if we are counting guys that truly led their teams to a ring.

The only players to win finals MVP (and a ring) as a PG are: JoJo White, Magic, IT, Chauncey, and Tony Parker. Magic, IT, and maybe Tony otherwise belong in the all time great discussion.

Throw in Steph, Kyrie, Frazier, West, and Big O as PGs to win a ship as one of the two best players on the team.

So even if you want to wayyyyy overvalue rings the only guys I can see putting ahead of Chris are:

Magic
IT
West
Big O
Steph
Frazier
 
RChildress107 said:
He’s definitely in the conversation. It’s hard for me to take any ranking of PGs without Chris in the top 5 very seriously.

I’m kind of sympathetic to the argument that you can’t be in the GOAT conversation without a ring, but only if we are counting guys that truly led their teams to a ring.

The only players to win finals MVP (and a ring) as a PG are: JoJo White, Magic, IT, Chauncey, and Tony Parker. Magic, IT, and maybe Tony otherwise belong in the all time great discussion.

Throw in Steph, Kyrie, Frazier, West, and Big O as PGs to win a ship as one of the two best players on the team.

So even if you want to wayyyyy overvalue rings the only guys I can see putting ahead of Chris are:

Magic
IT
West
Big O
Steph
Frazier
Click to expand...

steph was with out a doubt the best player on a championship team not 1 of 2 best.
 
PhDeac said:
Draymond would have been at home in the 80s and 90s. He’s the spiritual descendant of the Bad Boys teams. Draymond vs. Chuck on the court would have been awesome.
Click to expand...

Draymond is a Michigan native born during theheight of the Pistons power.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top