Official 2020 NBA Offseason - First Half Season Schedule Out

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

Thought I would bring this back because I just realized it. Hawks in the 31 games that Collins has played are 11-20 (0.355). Better than the Hornets.

So what? He missed a bunch of games due to his own stupidity. PJ Washington has missed games, Monk has missed games, Zeller has missed a bunch of games per usual. The best ability is availability. You are what your record says you are.

 

[RJKarl]

The team has to spend 90% of the salary cap (the Sterling Rule). For the next three years, the Hawks (even if they get Horford) will be way under. They have to spend that money. You might as well get something for it.

They will have zero veteran leadership on their squad next year. That is a problem for a young team. In essence, they would be spending $10M/year of the $40M+ they MUST spend.

BTW, Horford is only guaranteed $14.5 in 22-23 unless his team makes the NBA Finals. That's $5.7M less than Capela is guaranteed.

According Hoopshype, barring Horford's team winning an NBA championship, he is guaranteed $69M over the next three years. Capela is guaranteed $57.3M. Actually, you were closer with your $10M total versus my $10M/year.

"Al Horford: Only $14,500,000 guaranteed in 2022/23, HoopsHype has learned. He would get $19,500,000 guaranteed if his team makes it to the NBA Finals in 2019/20, 2020/21 or 2021/22. His 2022/23 would be fully guaranteed if his team wins the NBA championship."

They can also stretch that $14.5M if Horford isn't worth having.

 

[deacon14]

So what? He missed a bunch of games due to his own stupidity. PJ Washington has missed games, Monk has missed games, Zeller has missed a bunch of games per usual. The best ability is availability. You are what your record says you are.

Yeah, I get that, just using it against your original point. You basically said Trae was a stat stuffer leading to his team being bad, and your proof was that Devonte Graham has led the Hornets to a better record than the Hawks. My counterpoint is that when Trae actually has his far and away best teammate playing he has led his team to be essentially as good as Graham has this season.

 

[deacon14]

The team has to spend 90% of the salary cap (the Sterling Rule). For the next three years, the Hawks (even if they get Horford) will be way under. They have to spend that money. You might as well get something for it.

They will have zero veteran leadership on their squad next year. That is a problem for a young team. In essence, they would be spending $10M/year of the $40M+ they MUST spend.

BTW, Horford is only guaranteed $14.5 in 22-23 unless his team makes the NBA Finals. That's $5.7M less than Capela is guaranteed.

According Hoopshype, barring Horford's team winning an NBA championship, he is guaranteed $69M over the next three years. Capela is guaranteed $57.3M. Actually, you were closer with your $10M total versus my $10M/year.

"Al Horford: Only $14,500,000 guaranteed in 2022/23, HoopsHype has learned. He would get $19,500,000 guaranteed if his team makes it to the NBA Finals in 2019/20, 2020/21 or 2021/22. His 2022/23 would be fully guaranteed if his team wins the NBA championship."

They can also stretch that $14.5M if Horford isn't worth having.

Yeah, I know how the NBA salary cap works. Although I didn’t know that about Horford’s contract.

Regardless, my only point here is really that the Hawks won’t be trading for Horford. Just because they have money to use doesnt mean thats the best way to use it. They didn’t acquire Capela to trade him, and they clearly are aiming towards being a young team. Horford is a decent player who could very reasonably be facing an age related decline, and there’s zero reason for the Hawks to take that on.

 

[RJKarl]

So what? He missed a bunch of games due to his own stupidity. PJ Washington has missed games, Monk has missed games, Zeller has missed a bunch of games per usual. The best ability is availability. You are what your record says you are.

I'll take cliches for $2000 Alex...

If you are celebrating PJ, Monk and Zeller, your bar isn't low. It's scraping the ground.

 

[RJKarl]

Yeah, I know how the NBA salary cap works. Although I didn’t know that about Horford’s contract.

Regardless, my only point here is really that the Hawks won’t be trading for Horford. Just because they have money to use doesnt mean thats the best way to use it. They didn’t acquire Capela to trade him, and they clearly are aiming towards being a young team. Horford is a decent player who could very reasonably be facing an age related decline, and there’s zero reason for the Hawks to take that on.

There's no question he's not the same player who left Atlanta. But having no one to learn from, no leadership is a big factor of what keeps bad teams bad. Teams need someone to learn how to win from in their lockerrooms and on the court.

Not having leadership is wasting the youth of Young and Collins.

I would guess something like this would end up being a three team trade. Capela wouldn't stop in Philly. The Hawks could end up with a little more.

 

[deacon14]

There's no question he's not the same player who left Atlanta. But having no one to learn from, no leadership is a big factor of what keeps bad teams bad. Teams need someone to learn how to win from in their lockerrooms and on the court.

Not having leadership is wasting the youth of Young and Collins.

I would guess something like this would end up being a three team trade. Capela wouldn't stop in Philly. The Hawks could end up with a little more.

Your point about veteran leadership is probably legit, but I’m not convinced that similar leadership can be acquired for the Hawks much more easily in other ways.

End of the day, here’s a decent way to evaluate this trade idea. You’re a Sixers fan, and you’d (I assume) be very pleased with dumping Horford’s contract for whatever you can get for Capela. I, as a Hawks fan, would be very upset with that trade, considering we just gave up a first round pick to get Capela. Maybe if something else came to the Hawks it’d be ok, but the Hawks are at a point where they don’t want to trade for picks anymore, so that trade framework seems unlikely to work.

 

[netflixnchildres]

Tyrese Haliburton would be a great pick for the Hawks if he's healthy. As a plus they may be able to trade down and still get him plus some assets.

 

[deacon14]

Tyrese Haliburton would be a great pick for the Hawks if he's healthy. As a plus they may be able to trade down and still get him plus some assets.

I’d be cool with that, especially if they can’t get/don’t want Edwards.

Also:

 

[RJKarl]

Your point about veteran leadership is probably legit, but I’m not convinced that similar leadership can be acquired for the Hawks much more easily in other ways.

End of the day, here’s a decent way to evaluate this trade idea. You’re a Sixers fan, and you’d (I assume) be very pleased with dumping Horford’s contract for whatever you can get for Capela. I, as a Hawks fan, would be very upset with that trade, considering we just gave up a first round pick to get Capela. Maybe if something else came to the Hawks it’d be ok, but the Hawks are at a point where they don’t want to trade for picks anymore, so that trade framework seems unlikely to work.

When is that pick and how much is it protected?

As we both realize, it's not about any money. If the Sixers can move Capela, I'd have no problem giving up a 1st Round pick in a couple of years.

RE: taking Haliburton- why would you use a Top 5 pick to take a redundant player to your best player? If they are #4/5, don't be shocked to see them take the kid from Israel.

 

[netflixnchildres]

RE: taking Haliburton- why would you use a Top 5 pick to take a redundant player to your best player? If they are #4/5, don't be shocked to see them take the kid from Israel.

Because he's 6'5 with a 6'11 wingspan so he is switchable on defense with perimeter players. Secondary ball-handler, who can hit the 3, and is a top 3 passer in the draft.

 

[RJKarl]

The other guard with the Hawks need to be a defender and knockdown shooter. The Hawks shouldn't take a guy whose best usage is age a big PG that highly in the draft. If they want him, the might be able to trade down several slots get much more in return.

 

[deacon22]

Official 2019-20 NBA Season: 4 team trade Capela to Hawks; Covington to Rockets

Anthony Edwards has to be to target player for the Hawks. Another player who would be interesting is Lamelo. His Dad kind of fucked his image as a high schooler and sent him to Australia, but he’s a 6’8 PG and the best distributor in the draft. His 3P% is suspect, but Hawks aren’t in need of a volume shooter. As much as I like JT, picking up Lamelo as a backup PG to Trae makes more sense.

 

[netflixnchildres]

Anthony Edwards has to be to target player for the Hawks. Another player who would be interesting is Lamelo. His Dad kind of fucked his image as a high schooler and sent him to Australia, but he’s a 6’8 PG and the best distributor in the draft. His 3P% is suspect, but Hawks aren’t in need of a volume shooter. As much as I like JT, picking up Lamelo as a backup PG to Trae makes more sense.

No one needs to deal with this distraction

And Edwards will go #1. Unless the Hawks win the lottery, they aren't getting him.

 

[harmoniousmonk]

League pass free through sunday

 

[RJKarl]

Anthony Edwards has to be to target player for the Hawks. Another player who would be interesting is Lamelo. His Dad kind of fucked his image as a high schooler and sent him to Australia, but he’s a 6’8 PG and the best distributor in the draft. His 3P% is suspect, but Hawks aren’t in need of a volume shooter. As much as I like JT, picking up Lamelo as a backup PG to Trae makes more sense.

Why use the #2 or #3 pick on a guy who plays the same position as your star and may or may not be better?

The Hawks would do well with the Warriors getting #1 and the Hawks getting #2. Ws will most likely pick Wiseman leaving Edwards for the Hawks. If they get #3 and trade down to #5-7, they might end up with the player they wan'ted at #3 and a bunch of other good stuff.

 

[deacon14]

Trading down idea is always fun, but seems unlikely in this draft. I doubt there’s another team that has such a strong preference beyond Wiseman and Edwards that they want to trade up.

 

[RJKarl]

LaMelo has a lot of fans now...

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

Yeah, I get that, just using it against your original point. You basically said Trae was a stat stuffer leading to his team being bad, and your proof was that Devonte Graham has led the Hornets to a better record than the Hawks. My counterpoint is that when Trae actually has his far and away best teammate playing he has led his team to be essentially as good as Graham has this season.

No, I don't think he is a stat stuffer leading them to being bad, they are bad without him. But I do think he is a stat stuffer who may prevent them from being good in the long run, there is a difference. He is a fun player to watch fo sure, but I'm not sure his style translates to high level winning basketball. As to the obvious "It works with Steph" response, Steph is arguably the best shooter in history and has had a minimum of 2 to 4 other HOFs around him at all times. That situation is the unique exception and not the norm, as is the Warriors style in general. For the one Steph there have been dozens of good shooting perimeter chuckers whose careers have floundered in mediocrity. We'll see how it works with Trae.

My point with Devonte is that nobody is going to say that, in a vacuum, Devonte is as good a player as Trae. But, he plays the more traditional PG role, which has led to more wins with an arguably worse roster (at least in terms of pick placement).

 

[Strickland33]

No, I don't think he is a stat stuffer leading them to being bad, they are bad without him. But I do think he is a stat stuffer who may prevent them from being good in the long run, there is a difference. He is a fun player to watch fo sure, but I'm not sure his style translates to high level winning basketball. As to the obvious "It works with Steph" response, Steph is arguably the best shooter in history and has had a minimum of 2 to 4 other HOFs around him at all times. That situation is the unique exception and not the norm, as is the Warriors style in general. For the one Steph there have been dozens of good shooting perimeter chuckers whose careers have floundered in mediocrity. We'll see how it works with Trae.

My point with Devonte is that nobody is going to say that, in a vacuum, Devonte is as good a player as Trae. But, he plays the more traditional PG role, which has led to more wins with an arguably worse roster (at least in terms of pick placement).

Graham has a eFG% at 49% (career 47.6%), 15.6 PER (career 14.2), 2.8 WS (career 3.3), and 7.8 apg (career 5.4); Trae has an eFG% at 53% (career 50.3%), 24.6 PER (career 20.2), 5.6 WS (career 8.6), and 9.2 apg (career 8.5).

Take. The. L..