Official Duke's Mayo Bowl vs. Wisconsin Thread

[DCDeac]

Weird since Hartman ran for 275 yards in his first year. Wolford as a comparison ran for only 67 as a sophomore before consecutive 500+ yard rushing seasons. Maybe if Kern or Griffis develop as legitimate backup options we'll see more roll-outs and runs for Hartman.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Weird since Hartman ran for 275 yards in his first year. Wolford as a comparison ran for only 67 as a sophomore before consecutive 500+ yard rushing seasons. Maybe if Kern or Griffis develop as legitimate backup options we'll see more roll-outs and runs for Hartman.

Yeah, I think Hartman is a decent runner actually, I just think the coaches didn't want him running that much this year because of not being comfortable with the backups. With Newman last year, the coaches knew they had Hartman if Newman got hurt.

 

[PhDeac]

Weird since Hartman ran for 275 yards in his first year. Wolford as a comparison ran for only 67 as a sophomore before consecutive 500+ yard rushing seasons. Maybe if Kern or Griffis develop as legitimate backup options we'll see more roll-outs and runs for Hartman.

Two explanations for that. Sacks count as negative rushing yards in college and he split time with Hinton.

 

[DCDeac]

Two explanations for that. Sacks count as negative rushing yards in college and he split time with Hinton.

Sure, but he still had 11 starts. Not sure why "how they count it in college" matters, I'm not comparing an NFL player to a college player.

 

[Biff Tannen]

Hartman had a lot of rushing yards his freshman year (9 starts) but once we got into conference play he was taking way too many hits and was eventually injured, which is why Newman wound up as the starter.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

hartman looked like molasses this year (inc. yesterday). not sure if this holds up to the evidence but i recalled him looking way quicker in previous years.

my take is that hartman is a competent qb at this level with some real flaws: deep ball, staring down receivers and apparently a lack of mobility. i think yesterday was actually pretty bad luck — his yds/attempt was good and generally was the entire offense with the running game not doing much. the picks were bad, but you expect a qb to make some mistakes each game and hope they don’t hurt you. the wisconsin guys made some good plays to pick off all those cleanly. id guess the “expected” # of picks was closer to 2.

but by the same token, i think he’s been super lucky all season to keep his INTs low; it’s not like he was playing mistake free football — he was just getting away with most of them. regardless, i would be shocked if kern or griffis ever beat him out — but do think it’s somewhere we could realistically upgrade (as we had with newman as has been mentioned)

 

[ChrisL68]

We threw the ball 52 times and gave up one sack and only a handful of significant pressures. We also ran the ball about as effectively as they did over the course of the game. The idea that our offensive line lost the game and couldn't withstand the battle of the trenches is just a bad take.

 

[BeachBumDeac]

Hartman was noticeably more jacked this year. Wonder if that affected his mobility. Probably helped his durability though.

 

[deacdixieboy]

This is spot on. I can remember multiple defense drops this season. The 1 going into yesterday was an anomaly. Not that his number would’ve been bad by any means. Just not 1.

 

[sportsmed86]

This game was an embarrassment to the ACC. This sorry Wake team just opted out. My question is why in the GD Hell do you accept a bowl invite if your going to play the whole game with a dildo in your mouth.

Nobody gives a shit about your opinion and yes this is an open forum. You are the only dick in this post. Those guys played their hearts out all year.

 

[PhDeac]

Sure, but he still had 11 starts. Not sure why "how they count it in college" matters, I'm not comparing an NFL player to a college player.

He got sacked a lot in those years.

He split with Hinton so he didn’t have as many snaps as a full-time starter would.

 

[PhDeac]

Sure, but he still had 11 starts. Not sure why "how they count it in college" matters, I'm not comparing an NFL player to a college player.

He got sacked a lot in those years.

He split with Hinton so he didn’t have as many snaps as a full-time starter would.

 

[DeacAssured]

Sam's record as a starter is 9-10. He has improved during his three seasons and has the potential to be very successful. He also has periods where he is unfocused, inaccurate and needs to see the bench. Clawson has yet to take that approach, even for a series. I hope Sam learns to eliminate or minimize those periods of ineffectiveness as he matures. Otherwise Dave will need to learn how to sit his starter for a breather or Wake will lose games it should win and remain a .500 football team.

Now you're not wrong on the importance of the coaching approach. Coach cannot give a free pass to any player, agree. But Hartman's play Wednesday was clearly an aberration which may have lessened with a different coaching approach, yes.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

in the modern history of football, i can’t really recall any coach pulling a starting qb to “send a message” in the middle of the game. players play poorly sometimes, but there is a good reason that professional coaches don’t typically make emotionally driven decisions that fans often call for.

that doesn’t mean qbs never get benched — but it’s almost always for a thoughtful reason, whether that’s trying a new scheme (eg bringing in a mobile qb) or for the sanity / morale of a player (which is i suspect what happened with hartman; clawson basically forfeited what minuscule chance we had to make a miracle comeback to just get hartman out of the game)

 

[TheAbster]

in the modern history of football, i can’t really recall any coach pulling a starting qb to “send a message” in the middle of the game. players play poorly sometimes, but there is a good reason that professional coaches don’t typically make emotionally driven decisions that fans often call for.

that doesn’t mean qbs never get benched — but it’s almost always for a thoughtful reason, whether that’s trying a new scheme (eg bringing in a mobile qb) or for the sanity / morale of a player (which is i suspect what happened with hartman; clawson basically forfeited what minuscule chance we had to make a miracle comeback to just get hartman out of the game)

Saban benched Jalen Hurts at halftime of the national championship game just a few years ago and played Tagovailoa the 2nd half. Tagovailoa led the Tide to a national title on a 41 yard pass in OT.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

Saban benched Jalen Hurts at halftime of the national championship game just a few years ago and played Tagovailoa the 2nd half. Tagovailoa led the Tide to a national title on a 41 yard pass in OT.

because tua was arguably (at the very least) a better qb. what he didn’t do was bench a superior qb for a series (or whatever) without a logical / well thought out plan.

 

[deacon22]

Sorry, not going to get excited about a kid from Ivy League football nor a nondescript DB from Navy.

LSU has a starting OL that transferred from Harvard. The top level Ivy players are good P5 players so to not be excited about a preseason 1st team all Ivy League DB is dumb.

 

[TheAbster]

because tua was arguably (at the very least) a better qb. what he didn’t do was bench a superior qb for a series (or whatever) without a logical / well thought out plan.

Hurts had just led the Tide to a come-from-behind win over GA in the SEC championship game. Saban benched Hurts, who had just secured another SEC title, for a true freshman QB in Tagovailoa.

I'm not sure "arguably" would have applied at halftime of the national championship game. After the fact? Yes, that can be debated.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

Hurts had just led the Tide to a come-from-behind win over GA in the SEC championship game. Saban benched Hurts, who had just secured another SEC title, for a true freshman QB in Tagovailoa.

I'm not sure "arguably" would have applied at halftime of the national championship game. After the fact? Yes, that can be debated.

i actually think this is the crux of it — for a fan watching the game, it definitely would seem a bit revisionist. but a coach has almost infinitely more information than a fan, which is something i think is easy to forget. nick saban didn’t need to see that game to know how good tua was because he had spent hundreds of hours evaluating him over the course for he season. but when fans assume that coaches have the same information they have, it becomes very easy to believe they are making poor decisions.

back to clawson — from everything i’ve heard from him, i’m under the impression he’s not a micromanager and gives his staff a fair bit of autonomy to make decisions in their area, which probably includes a lot of personnel decisions. regardless, i think we’ve at times been willing to go to backups as appropriate (eg wolford/hinton, newman, RB rotations, etc) although you could argue newman could have played earlier (or hartman could have played more last year when newman was struggling)

 

[TheAbster]

i actually think this is the crux of it — for a fan watching the game, it definitely would seem a bit revisionist. but a coach has almost infinitely more information than a fan, which is something i think is easy to forget. nick saban didn’t need to see that game to know how good tua was because he had spent hundreds of hours evaluating him over the course for he season. but when fans assume that coaches have the same information they have, it becomes very easy to believe they are making poor decisions.

back to clawson — from everything i’ve heard from him, i’m under the impression he’s not a micromanager and gives his staff a fair bit of autonomy to make decisions in their area, which probably includes a lot of personnel decisions. regardless, i think we’ve at times been willing to go to backups as appropriate (eg wolford/hinton, newman, RB rotations, etc) although you could argue newman could have played earlier (or hartman could have played more last year when newman was struggling)

I don't know what 2021 will bring but I definitely think Clawson needs to go into the fall camp with eyes wide open regarding multiple positions. I have FULL confidence that he will.

My point is simply that making changes at QB when a kid is obviously having a horrible day is not some unforgiveable sin. Many Cy Young pitchers have been pulled in the 2nd inning because they just didn't "have it" that day. I think WAY too much is made when a QB is replaced during a game. They're having a horrible game. It's okay. It's not the end of the world. Give someone else a chance. Saban obviously did that and it worked quite well. Others have as well.