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Official post-2020 Democrats Thread - Dems in Disarray! Hot takes welcome here!

ChrisL68 said:
Not to mention the last two times that Democrats have pushed public health care we ended up with half measures because that's all we can get through and we paid a huge electoral price. The first time was the genesis of Newt Gingrich's contract with America and the last time was the birth of all these tea party idiots.

So until I can see some evidence that this policy would actually drive people to the polls in numbers where we would need to win elections I remain skeptical.
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That’s a messaging issue.
 
Right. But they don’t get credit for watered down policies either.
 
I think people look at the Democratic Party as the cancel culture party that wants to get rid of the police, allow looting and rioting, and let child molesters in their kids’ bathrooms.

This is hyperbole, but not far off to how I think many Americans feel. I think the average American actually prefers the policies of the Democrats, but, at the same time, feels they’re out of touch with their way of life and their values.
 
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That’s a solid take.
 
Les Grossman said:
I think people look at the Democratic Party as the cancel culture party that wants to get rid of the police, allow looting and rioting, and let child molesters in their kids’ bathrooms.

This is hyperbole, but not far off to how I think many Americans feel. I think the average American actually prefers the policies of the Democrats, but, at the same time, feels their out of touch with their way of life and their values.
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Don't forget "baby killers" and "socialists."
 
Let me go through these one by one
ChrisL68 said:
...
1. “Democrats have pushed public health care”,
2. “We ended up with half measures.”
3. “That's all we can get through.”
4. “We paid a huge electoral price.”.
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1. We have? Publicly? When did the Democratic Party champion a “public healthcare” program in a way that would put pressure on the conservative Dems in the party. This party is deathly afraid of appearing radical, and thusly understates our platform.

2. We started with half measures, and a handful of Conservative Dems sabotaged the effort with no repercussions. For all the knashing of teeth over progressives not letting perfect get in the way of the good, there doesn’t seem to be any negative attention on the Dems consistently blocking the agenda.

3. The Democratic Party is currently designed to prevent progressive movement - any Democratic Senate majority won, would rely upon the same Red state shithead Senators like Sinema or Manchin that will block the party agenda.

4. You can’t just assign blame for Republicans taking back power on Democratic healthcare legislation. It’s a cyclical occurrence - The Republican Party would have used any context to negatively campaign and activate their base to retake power. On top of that, the ACA rollout was not exactly flawless - it was a confusing, discouraging shitshow that invited resistance.
 
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ChrisL68 said:
I wish the electorate was more receptive to a massive government public insurance plan but you're kidding yourself if you think that's a reality.
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“You’re kidding your self with those data you posted!”
 
ChrisL68 said:
And we've been over how these poll results are entirely dependent on phrasing and variables. It doesn't look like the electorate to me is yearning for more government involvement in healthcare. I wish they were
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Maybe Dems should then look at how the poll MHB posted is phrased and use that in their platform.
 
Les Grossman said:
I think people look at the Democratic Party as the cancel culture party that wants to get rid of the police, allow looting and rioting, and let child molesters in their kids’ bathrooms.

This is hyperbole, but not far off to how I think many Americans feel. I think the average American actually prefers the policies of the Democrats, but, at the same time, feels they’re out of touch with their way of life and their values.
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There is a huge cultural ethos that the democrats are fighting in rural america. Trump really drove the vote there and I am skeptical that a left wing "commie socialist" populist would be able to make a big dent there going against the prevailing culture.
 
PhDeac said:
That’s a messaging issue.
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It's a messaging quandary. I think the dems have a tough task building a message to a diverse coalition of people who are not on the same page trying to get support for a huge complex government solution.

Pub can just throw wrenches and then claim that it doesn't work and you shouldn't trust it.
 
birdman said:
“You’re kidding your self with those data you posted!”
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the same Kaiser poll shows a much stronger support for this:

This much more closely aligns to what the Democratic establishment is pushing and it's clearly more broadly popular so if we really are concerned about pushing something that's more broadly popular and achievable we should all get behind this.

the reality is that even this is a heavy lift with the electorate. At some point we have to stop viewing these polls as sancrosanct, because they are not.

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ChrisL68 said:
I find election results more of an indication of the voter's intent than the results of a poll.
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I completely disagree with you here. It’s convenient for your ideological bent for you to believe that all votes for a Republican President are ideological votes *against* progressive policy, but I don’t believe that. Voting in the general election is more strongly based on cultural affiliation than it is policy preference. People vote Republican because that’s what team they’re on, and they’ll regurgitate what ever logic that the Republican Party gives them.
 
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myDeaconmyhand said:
I completely disagree with you here. It’s convenient for your ideological bent for you to believe that all votes for a Republican President are ideological votes *against* progressive policy, but I don’t believe that. Voting in the general election is more strongly based on cultural affiliation than it is policy preference. People vote Republican because that’s what team they’re on, and they’ll regurgitate what ever logic that the Republican Party gives them.
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Where did i say that all votes are against a policy? I think the reasons that trying to enact even a broadly popular public option is a heavy lift are pretty much exactly how you describe it above.

So how do you expect a push through a less broadly popular policy when the group that is pushing it feeds mostly into the same cultural stereotypes that causes those people to vote Republican in the first place?
 
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So MDMH and CL, what’s the solution? Seems hopeless to engage in wonky discussions with this basic messaging issue and Republicans who can easily throw wrenches into everything.

And before anybody says that the solution is just organizing, organizing includes messaging.
 
I think trying to get as much message discipline as possible pushing kitchen sink broadly popular achievable solutions is our best chance to make inroads.

We desperately need to get on the same page. We need the far left and the more moderate democrats all together to try to start building a governing coalition to start moving things to the left. I don't think that radical change is feasible in this current environment. Demanding it is a sure way to make sure that you get nothing.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I think trying to get as much message discipline as possible pushing kitchen sink broadly popular achievable solutions is our best chance to make inroads.

We desperately need to get on the same page. We need the far left and the more moderate democrats all together to try to start building a governing coalition to start moving things to the left. I don't think that radical change is feasible in this current environment. Demanding it is a sure way to make sure that you get nothing.
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What is “message discipline” to you, besides the more progressive candidates in the party just remaining silent? What you’re asking for, a push for “broadly achievable” (whatever that means) solutions, is already the status quo, and it doesn’t make a dent in partisanship, it just moves voters around. Were Biden, Cal Cunningham, and Amy McGrath just not reasonable enough this season? I don’t understand what it is that you want from a national Democratic Party campaign that you aren’t getting already.

“Broadly achievable” is not inspiring. It’s just the same condescending Democratic rhetoric, begging for the more demanding constituents and politicians to be quiet.
 
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