Official Syracuse - Wake game thread (Foot of snow)

[Bourrc9]

I think Manning put in TVH there because he trusts him to commit a quick foul and on one of their worst shooters. He definitely shouldve put in Doral first, and then subbed in TVH after/if Dinos made the second. Think Danny just overlooked this move and assumed Dinos would make the FT. After Crafword's 3 made it a one point game with 20 seconds left, all 5 guys turned around and ran back down the court allowing Syracuse to walk the ball up the court without being fouled and then getting the ball to Lydon. Not sure how a team can be so unaware of the circumstances in a situation like this, but MAnning only had one TO left and he was in the right by not using it.

 

[RJKarl]

It is easy to understand, but at the same time it came across as Coach assumed there was no way Dinos was going to miss a FT. In hindsight, I am sure if you told Manning that he is not going to make the 2nd free throw he might have chosen a different player to be standing there w/ potential at a game saving offensive rebound.

He's an 85% FT shooter and out second best rebounder. There was no reason to assume he's going to miss. It was 1000% the right move. There are two groups of people who don't understand this. The first are those who will post no matter what happens that Danny was wronf. The second is those who don't have a clue about basketball.

 

[Complacent Deac]

Last night really pissed me off more than most losses the last 7 years. We had a great opportunity to win 2 straight road games against a team I think we're better than, controlled most of the game (though very tight throughout) and we found a way to screw it up. I know some will probably say, well we just got our first road ACC win in 25 attempts Saturday and at least we had a chance to win last night, but damn I'm tired of that thinking. I watched that game last night and I was hard pressed to say that I'd trade any of our prominent players for anybody on Cuse's team. Maybe the guy they had that had transferred from Kansas to Nebraska to Cuse, yeah I'd trade Arians for him, but other than that I didn't see anybody. I guess the biggest difference was Cuse has a HOF coach, although an ass, on their bench and we've got a coach who I think is improving, but still has a ways to go.

This team has some talent and are really close to being 3 games or so better than the record says, it's just frustrating and after 7 years my patience is wearing thin, even though I do think things are trending in the right direction.

We have talent, no doubt, but adding 1 guy next year may not take us to the next level (1 freshman).

We certainly don't have this level of talent:

PG - McQueen
SG - Childress
SF - Tucker
PF - King
C - Rogers

Bench: Tree Owens, Blucas

Just the athleticism with Tucker/King/Rogers/Tree was way better than what we have now (Collins is in that category, of course, but he's 1 guy).

We had teams prior and since (Johnson/Aminu etc.) where we had 2-3 dudes who could physically out match our opponent.

 

[RJKarl]

I think Manning put in TVH there because he trusts him to commit a quick foul and on one of their worst shooters. He definitely shouldve put in Doral first, and then subbed in TVH after/if Dinos made the second. Think Danny just overlooked this move and assumed Dinos would make the FT. After Crafword's 3 made it a one point game with 20 seconds left, all 5 guys turned around and ran back down the court allowing Syracuse to walk the ball up the court without being fouled and then getting the ball to Lydon. Not sure how a team can be so unaware of the circumstances in a situation like this, but MAnning only had one TO left and he was in the right by not using it.

You can't take someone out of the game who just came in if no time comes off the clock.

 

[tigerswood]

Do I need to draw you a picture? I'm talking about last night, if I'd been watching Cuse play this year and seen Lydon's stats, yeah I'm sure I would. I'm simply saying, I didn't see anywhere last night on the court I thought was were significantly outmatched, but I thought Collins had them significantly outmatched. I'm sure Lydon is the second coming of Larry Bird, but honestly until watching last night, I wouldn't have known him if I had passed him on the street, so what I'm saying is totally based off last night. The guy for Cuse that hurt us the most last night was the transfer, so that is why I mentioned him.

Yes please, I like pictures.

If you watched the game last night, and didn't come to conclusion that Lydon is a far better player than Dinos, then I don't know what to tell you. He's quicker, more athletic, better passer, etc. He had 16 and 9 with 5 assists and 2 blocks to Dinos' 5 and 6 with 0 assists and 0 blocks.

So yeah, even just last night, Lydon would be the obvious pick.

 

[BostonDeac]

Agreed Crawford call not being considered "in the act" was horrible. IMO it was direct result of Jimmy working the officials hard in the first half. ... Once BC launched the long 3 even though it was clearly in the act I think his whining finally paid off.

this is the play that is pissing me off the most today. Such a heads up play by BC to get in the act of shooting, which he definitely was. Had they made the correct call, it could've been a tie game. Boeheim working the ref might have played into it but I think the ref just didn't have any balls and didn't want to make a "tough" call at Syracuse. Its always easier to just say the foul was on the floor.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Yes please, I like pictures.

If you watched the game last night, and didn't come to conclusion that Lydon is a far better player than Dinos, then I don't know what to tell you. He's quicker, more athletic, better passer, etc. He had 16 and 9 with 5 assists and 2 blocks to Dinos' 5 and 6 with 0 assists and 0 blocks.

So yeah, even just last night, Lydon would be the obvious pick.

That's fine and you're entitled to your observation. Don't be an ass and I won't be an ass back.

I didn't have the knowledge of knowing how good Lydon is coming into last night is the point. Yeah, he had a good game, but nothing earth-shartering. I'm sure based on one game, LSU fans would've traded half their team for Dinos since they'd probably never seen him play other games, but we know better.

 

[RJKarl]

So many turnovers, awful. If we have a desire to make the NCAAT these are games we've got to have. A lot of blame to go around for the sloppy play, but is there a reason JC and Moore never seem to be on the floor at the same time?

BSD, we only had 11 TOs. To that in perspective only two teams in the ACC average under 11 TOs/game; ND and UVA. Each is at 10 and UVA only averages 70 ppg.

In our previous five games, we have committed a total of 54 TOs. If you adjust that to our number of possessions, I'd be surprised if we were lower than #2 or #3 in the ACC on TO/possession.

 

[bmoneydeac]

Lydon is so comfortable with the ball. Compare that to Dinos who panicked whenever he got the ball in the middle of the zone.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

BSD, we only had 11 TOs. To that in perspective only two teams in the ACC average under 11 TOs/game; ND and UVA. Each is at 10 and UVA only averages 70 ppg.

In our previous five games, we have committed a total of 54 TOs. If you adjust that to our number of possessions, I'd be surprised if we were lower than #2 or #3 in the ACC on TO/possession.

Our turnover totals are usually pretty decent, but it seems like our timing of turnovers really hurts. I know early in the game Bonner mentioned we had a problem turning the ball over too much and I thought that wasn't really true, as it seems our turnover totals aren't normally bad.

 

[DeacsATS]

A few quick thoughts on last night's game...

1- We are worse than mediocre on defense. This is the biggest obstacle to being better. The other 3 things I am about to mention are disappointing, but until we play better defense, we aren't going to be a better than average ACC team.
2- As Wrangor pointed out numerous times, our zone offense was awful. They were able to extend out the 2-3 because we just tossed it around the perimeter.
3- Didn't help that we didn't shoot the 3 well. Yeah, a lot of the 3s were open, but they weren't exactly "in rhythm." See #2.
4- Collins should have gotten the ball a lot more. The way Syracuse extended the 2-3 up top left him pretty open underneath. As much as Collins punished them inside, it didn't seem like Boeheim ever made an adjustment to pack it in (probably because we were so inept on the perimeter).

Disappointing game. We had a chance, but didn't play particularly well. Hoping we beat Duke on Saturday to get back on track.

 

[RJKarl]

That's fine and you're entitled to your observation. Don't be an ass and I won't be an ass back.

I didn't have the knowledge of knowing how good Lydon is coming into last night is the point. Yeah, he had a good game, but nothing earth-shartering. I'm sure based on one game, LSU fans would've traded half their team for Dinos since they'd probably never seen him play other games, but we know better.

It's not one game. It's Lydon's body of work.

 

[RJKarl]

Our turnover totals are usually pretty decent, but it seems like our timing of turnovers really hurts. I know early in the game Bonner mentioned we had a problem turning the ball over too much and I thought that wasn't really true, as it seems our turnover totals aren't normally bad.

Bonner was talkikng out of his ass. We had 4 or 5 TOs total in the first half.

 

[skinnydeac]

I'm going top put a directly as I can. if you don't get why Van Horn was put in the game, you shouldn't be posting about basketball. It's that simple.

Anyone with a junior high school understanding of the game would have seen he was put in, not to play D, not for offense, he was put in for one reason and one reason only, to commit a foul. That's it. We had multiple guys with three or four fouls, had to foul and didn't want to lose a player or have a player get a fourth foul in case we went into OT.

It's unfathomable that so many who allege they know something about basketball don't get this most basic move.

This team needs an LD or Trent Strickland type player badly

 

[liveanddiedeac]

A few quick thoughts on last night's game...

1- We are worse than mediocre on defense. This is the biggest obstacle to being better. The other 3 things I am about to mention are disappointing, but until we play better defense, we aren't going to be a better than average ACC team.
2- As Wrangor pointed out numerous times, our zone offense was awful. They were able to extend out the 2-3 because we just tossed it around the perimeter.
3- Didn't help that we didn't shoot the 3 well. Yeah, a lot of the 3s were open, but they weren't exactly "in rhythm." See #2.
4- Collins should have gotten the ball a lot more. The way Syracuse extended the 2-3 up top left him pretty open underneath. As much as Collins punished them inside, it didn't seem like Boeheim ever made an adjustment to pack it in (probably because we were so inept on the perimeter).

Disappointing game. We had a chance, but didn't play particularly well. Hoping we beat Duke on Saturday to get back on track.

I think Cuse has a big advantage playing that zone, in that building and forcing teams to have to take a lot of 3's. It is hard for opposing teams to get used to shooting 3's in that place. I think if we got them at the Joel, we'd shoot the 3 much better and would beat them. You got to play where the game is though and that's no real excuse.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

It's not one game. It's Lydon's body of work.

Right and as I stated, until last night I wouldn't have known who Lydon was if he bumped into me on the street. So, I was just speaking about last night. I agree, body of work, there is no question. My whole point is that it was frustrating to sit there and watch us against a team I think as a whole we're just better than and still lose. It's my own fault, the win at Raleigh got my hopes up too much, I set myself up for the frustration and disappointment.

 

[Bubble Boy]

One thing that frustrates me is when a team (i.e. Wake Forest) doesn't even go for the ball when needing to foul. I get that time is of the essence, but it shouldn't take any longer to foul while going hyper aggressively for the ball versus just grabbing the player. And how many times have our guys gotten "mugged" in that situation with no call and then ended up throwing the ball away? It is the one time that you can pretty just do whatever it takes to get the ball without any regard to being called for a foul, so I don't get why you don't take advantage of that. The worst thing that happens is you get called for the foul you were looking to give anyway.

 

[Bourrc9]

You can't take someone out of the game who just came in if no time comes off the clock.

Then keep Doral in to guard the in-bounder and sub in TVH for Dinos. It's really not that complicated.

He's an 85% FT shooter and out second best rebounder. There was no reason to assume he's going to miss. It was 1000% the right move. There are two groups of people who don't understand this. The first are those who will post no matter what happens that Danny was wronf. The second is those who don't have a clue about basketball.

And yeah, except for, you know, the 15% chance that he was going to miss.

 

[daaberry]

Bonner was talkikng out of his ass. We had 4 or 5 TOs total in the first half.

Fucking Bonner approached both Crawford & Dinos free throws at the end of the game as if the only strategy was to miss the 2nd one. That was pretty annoying. With 8 seconds left there isn't very many coaches that aren't going to have their team try to get the lead down to one by making both FTS.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Fucking Bonner approached both Crawford & Dinos free throws at the end of the game as if the only strategy was to miss the 2nd one. That was pretty annoying. With 8 seconds left there isn't very many coaches that aren't going to have their team try to get the lead down to one by making both FTS.

I thought the same. I don't think you start thinking about missing the 2nd one in that situation until there's just a few seconds left and you know a put back will be your last shot. You know like in the 1989 4 overtime game vs. State, still hurts.