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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

Strickland33 said:
Obama's first term was the last progressive presidential campaign and dude didn't vote for him, so idk. Bush/Bush/McCain/Obama/Clinton. That's a lot of support for regressive politics that laid the groundwork for Trump. I'm not going to give him a participation trophy, but let's keep up the good work!
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Going to be tough to win elections if you require a 10 year waiting period before voting for your side.

The question needs to be "How can we convince people our policies will work for them and this country?" not "How can we disregard people who don't already agree with us?"

The first is building a coalition. The second is building a religion.
 
PhDeac said:
Going to be tough to win elections if you require a 10 year waiting period before voting for your side.

The question needs to be "How can we convince people our policies will work for them and this country?" not "How can we disregard people who don't already agree with us?"

The first is building a coalition. The second is building a religion.
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I'm just saying that the dude who voted for John McCain isn't really in a position to lecture lifelong Democrats on how to expand the platform. I'm all for him being a Democrat and continuing to vote Democrat. The platform doesn't need to be expanded to make its newcomer Republicans happy, especially before it takes into consideration the interests of its longtime working class base.

All of this talk of religion is bullshit. I get that this is a game to some - to the electoral fantasy sports set, to the online Bernie troll set, to the #nevertrump Twitter set - but at the end of the day you're not going to win this election unless you take seriously the economic distress and social inequality that is pulverizing the middle class and working poor in this country. People are hurting and the Democratic Party used to pride itself as being the party of working people. The fact that corporate Democrats, moderate centrists, reformed Republicans, whatever you want to call them are disproportionately represented in the primary process due to the ordering of primaries and turn out in higher numbers than voters from marginalized communities doesn't mean that the party should abandon its bread and butter base for recent GOP converts.

I get that everybody on this board is pretty comfortable, largely middle class and above homeowners with kids in good public school districts. Y'all don't really represent the modal Democratic voter.
 
I'm not saying "expand the platform." Never have. I'm saying to make the platform relevant to more people. That's marketing and branding. People are scared of change. Explain how M4A will make their lives better. Don't demonize them because they don't know.

There aren't enough "modal Democratic voters" to win elections. I put that in quotes because it's based on a lot of bad assumptions about people. A lot of those assumptions are basic lazy "conventional wisdom" that people become more Republican has they make more money.

And yeah, it is religion. So much of these posts read like "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a suburban mom to enter the Progressive movement."

You're unnecessarily narrowing the party. Republicans have excelled at getting people interested in one issue to buy into other issues. No reason why Democrats can't get suburban women who are interested in reproductive health, overall women's rights, and LGBT issues to get behind M4A and GND. Dogmatic progressivism just limits the movement as a whole.
 
The ordering of primaries significantly favored Bernie, and it was the black vote that really pushed Biden over the top. Your dialogue however, is a perfect example of the pompous self-importance that white progressives attach to their own viewpoint that really turns alot of voters off.
 
PhDeac said:
I'm not saying "expand the platform." Never have. I'm saying to make the platform relevant to more people. That's marketing and branding. People are scared of change. Explain how M4A will make their lives better. Don't demonize them because they don't know.

There aren't enough "modal Democratic voters" to win elections. I put that in quotes because it's based on a lot of bad assumptions about people. A lot of those assumptions are basic lazy "conventional wisdom" that people become more Republican has they make more money.

And yeah, it is religion. So much of these posts read like "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a suburban mom to enter the Progressive movement."

You're unnecessarily narrowing the party. Republicans have excelled at getting people interested in one issue to buy into other issues. No reason why Democrats can't get suburban women who are interested in reproductive health, overall women's rights, and LGBT issues to get behind M4A and GND. Dogmatic progressivism just limits the movement as a whole.
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Why aren't suburban women fans of the progressive platform, in your opinion? Why did they, as a group, vote for Trump in 2016.
 
college educated white women favored clinton over trump by 6% and the dem spread has grown since then.
 
ChrisL68 said:
college educated white women favored clinton over trump by 6% and the dem spread has grown since then.
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You didn't answer my question about the obstacles to suburban women embracing progressive policies.
 
Strickland33 said:
Why aren't suburban women fans of the progressive platform, in your opinion? Why did they, as a group, vote for Trump in 2016.
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I wasn’t aware Hillary ran on a progressive platform.

You may want to refer to the 2018 elections as well.

Either way, this “We can’t win them over” talk is pretty weak. What is the hope for a movement that the most ardent supporters think won’t win support?
 
Do some of y’all really think that it’s some freaking zero sum game?

Do you really believe that it’s against the interests of suburban women to vote for policies that help the poor?

Really??
 
Some times I feel like I see some of the progressive arguments are just the other side of Republican arguments.

"Progressive" posters: People who aren't poor won't possibly vote for policies to address poverty...
Republican posters: ...so Democrats want to keep people poor and dependent on the government to get their votes.
 
Then you don’t understand progressive policies and arguments. I don’t know what to tell you.
 
Ph: if progressive policies were actually popular people would vote for them
Also Ph somehow: People will vote for progressive policies even if they don’t benefit them
 
TownieDeac said:
Ph: if progressive policies were actually popular people would vote for them
Also Ph somehow: People will vote for progressive policies even if they don’t benefit them
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dude is a pretzel at this point
 
TownieDeac said:
Ph: if progressive policies were actually popular people would vote for them
Also Ph somehow: People will vote for progressive policies even if they don’t benefit them
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I'm going to keep calling out this Bernie = Progressive bullshit until you all stop doing it.

You all just can't help misrepresenting my posts, too. Progressive policies are more popular than Bernie. People are voting for progressives at various levels, but they just don't like Bernie that much. He does not do a good job of marketing progressive policies. He's good at preaching to the choir, but he can't put enough people in the pews.

And again, what is the gameplan if it's not to grow support for progressive policies? It's not fantasy sports, but you've got to put points on the board to win elections and get anything done.
 
Strickland33 said:
dude is a pretzel at this point
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Sure if you mangle my posts. Townie's post doesn't match up with what I've said because I've consistently said that people vote for people, not policies. Hell, you like Biden's platform, but you don't like Biden. You're evidence of my point.
 
Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: It's still a debacle

How am I evidence of your point?

I don’t like the guy who enthusiastically enabled mass incarceration and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; I don’t like the guy with a shitload of sexual harassment allegations against him and one sexual assault allegation.

I like the person who wrote his platform. Based on his appearances and comments so far, that person doesn’t really resemble Joe Biden. We’ll see what happens, though, and if he can close this gap. I’m rooting for him because as you point out, I think he’s got a pretty good platform.

Ultimately, however, it doesn’t matter. We have to get Donald Trump out of office and Joe Biden is our only shot. So, let’s make it count.
 
PhDeac said:
I'm going to keep calling out this Bernie = Progressive bullshit until you all stop doing it.

You all just can't help misrepresenting my posts, too. Progressive policies are more popular than Bernie. People are voting for progressives at various levels, but they just don't like Bernie that much. He does not do a good job of marketing progressive policies. He's good at preaching to the choir, but he can't put enough people in the pews.

And again, what is the gameplan if it's not to grow support for progressive policies? It's not fantasy sports, but you've got to put points on the board to win elections and get anything done.
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You’re the only person still talking about Bernie Sanders, man. You’re obsessed. Joe Biden is the nominee.
 
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