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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

you want to know what makes it even harder to prove a negative, especially in the court of public opinion?

refusing to cooperate with any investigation, legal or journalistic
 
She doesn't deserve an investigation. Should we investigate whether injecting or drinking disinfectants cures Covid? All accusations don't deserve being investigated.

You need to give this one up. She's been a scammer for many years.

As I've said from the start, this woman harms legitimate survivors. Because of scammers like her, it's harder for true survivors to get justice.
 
Yes Biden supports a realistic proposal of strengthening ACA by fixing a lot of the glitches in it instead of the fantasy Sanders proposal of M4A that had no chance of getting passed.
 
Yes Biden supports a realistic proposal of strengthening ACA by fixing a lot of the glitches in it instead of the fantasy Sanders proposal of M4A that had no chance of getting passed.

If Dems had listened to Biden when ACA passed, we would have had a full public option in 2010. This would have led to the country having or being very close to universal healthcare by now.
 
Yes Biden supports a realistic proposal of strengthening ACA by fixing a lot of the glitches in it instead of the fantasy Sanders proposal of M4A that had no chance of getting passed.

Love to be pragmatic about killing thousands of people.
 
She doesn't deserve an investigation. Should we investigate whether injecting or drinking disinfectants cures Covid? All accusations don't deserve being investigated.

You need to give this one up. She's been a scammer for many years.

As I've said from the start, this woman harms legitimate survivors. Because of scammers like her, it's harder for true survivors to get justice.

I disagree with this take. When dealing with sexual trauma, a person's past should not affect how a claim is received. In the course of making an investigation, it may influence the outcome, but should not factor into if there should be an investigation. A person with a ____________ past (whether sexual history, profession, criminal activity, whatever) should not be discounted from justice or protection from sexual assault.

If we as a society are going to take sexual violence seriously, there should be one standard applied to all - receive allegations with good faith, have an earnest investigation, and proceed from there.

Investigating claims against a powerful person that prove to be false does not hurt victims as much as dismissing claims without an investigation. The latter makes it much less likely for someone to come forward.
 
This person's current life wasn't clean.

again, I'm talking specifically about this one person, not in general.
 
This person's current life wasn't clean.

This is kind of my point, this shouldn't matter. Someone can be a compulsively dishonest person. That doesn't mean they are immune from sexual assault. And if they are, it is worse to dismiss their claim and trauma out of hand than to investigate a claim that proves to not be true.
 
I understand that but she had obvious issues that made her accusations ring hollow. She had ulterior motives.

There's also a difference between investigating something that is actionable and something that isn't. In this case, only political and personal gain could happen.

I'm 99.8% with you.
 
Investigating claims against a powerful person that prove to be false does not hurt victims as much as dismissing claims without an investigation. The latter makes it much less likely for someone to come forward.

This is an important point.

I wish people wouldn't say that sexual assault accusations hurt "real" victims. Even if the accusations prove to be false, that shouldn't impact whether we believe others in the future. To the extent they do, that's an indictment of our culture.
 
This is an important point.

I wish people wouldn't say that sexual assault accusations hurt "real" victims. Even if the accusations prove to be false, that shouldn't impact whether we believe others in the future. To the extent they do, that's an indictment of our culture.

TITCR

There really are some shameful posts from a handful of posters on here that just refuse to back down. It's pretty sickening, tbh.
 
This is an important point.

I wish people wouldn't say that sexual assault accusations hurt "real" victims. Even if the accusations prove to be false, that shouldn't impact whether we believe others in the future. To the extent they do, that's an indictment of our culture.

I think I get where you are coming from here, but is this really what you mean? It seems like you probably agree that false sexual assault accusations (speaking generally, not referencing any specific case) *do* hurt real victims. So it's not that you wish people wouldn't say that, it's that you wish it weren't true, right?
 
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I think I get where you are coming from here, but is this really what you mean? It seems like you probably agree that false sexual assault accusations (speaking generally, not referencing any specific case) *do* hurt real victims. So it's not that you wish people wouldn't say that, it's that you wish it weren't true, right?

I don't like when people say it either, because they're saying it to attack the accuser. That blame should go to people eager to have a false accusation to point to (for the rest of time) whenever accusations come out that they don't want to believe.

IF someone makes accusations that turn out to be false, criticize them for their actions and the direct harm they've caused, not things out of their control.

I appreciate the thoughtful response, though.
 
 
This is an important point.

I wish people wouldn't say that sexual assault accusations hurt "real" victims. Even if the accusations prove to be false, that shouldn't impact whether we believe others in the future. To the extent they do, that's an indictment of our culture.

If people make false accusations (as I've said this is rare), people will be impacted by seeing how they are treated. The next person will have to have incontrovertible evidence before they are taken seriously. Almost none have that. This can easily stifle many survivors from coming forward.
 
I think I get where you are coming from here, but is this really what you mean? It seems like you probably agree that false sexual assault accusations (speaking generally, not referencing any specific case) *do* hurt real victims. So it's not that you wish people wouldn't say that, it's that you wish it weren't true, right?

I think the people who say it on here especially are telling on themselves. They think because they don’t believe Reade it’s going to be harder for them to give the benefit of the doubt going forward.
 
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