Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

[Shooshmoo]

The Democratic Party has built this unquestioned righteousness in our culture that Democrats condemn everyone who doesn’t vote for them as racist or whatever soup of the day -ism.

This is pure silliness. It's weird to me how often you go to bat for the racist MAGAts.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

It's amazing that Chris gets so much shit when MDMH and Strick are the ones who keep the same argument going.

Must be sexually frustrating that we keep interrupting your masturbation session before you can finish. “Black women good, Bernie bros *bad* Jesus Christ you’re political analysis is about as deep as a mud puddle, it’s no wonder it’s so easy to upset you.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

This is pure silliness. It's weird to me how often you go to bat for the racist MAGAts.

*yawn*

 

[Shooshmoo]

Must be sexually frustrating that we keep interrupting your masturbation session before you can finish. “Black women good, Bernie bros *bad* Jesus Christ you’re political analysis is about as deep as a mud puddle, it’s no wonder it’s so easy to upset you.

Man, you really think you're a lot smarter than you are. Just wallowing through life being miserable and thinking your some sort of savant political philosopher.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Man, you really think you're a lot smarter than you are. Just wallowing through life being miserable and thinking your some sort of savant political philosopher.

It doesn’t take any kind of extraordinary intellect to disagree with the same dozen liberal wake grads for 10 years running.

 

[Shooshmoo]

I love how you guys have turned the word "liberal" into a perceived insult. Strong work there -- that accomplishes a lot -- helps bring everyone under the same tent.

 

[Strickland33]

White Dems worrying about Latinos is evidence of the tweet’s point. 59% of Latinos voted for Biden compared to 43% of white voters.

Your rephrasing isn’t what the tweet is saying. It’s saying white Dems need to work on their own people rather than worrying about the rest of us.

Yeah but her rephrasing does address what you said in response to that tweet in a few posts, which is that other racial groups are okay with the messaging and, for the reason, the messaging might be the problem.

Again, you're an empiricist - you can look at the data. The only racial group that consistently votes for Democrats are Black people, but that number is actually showing that Black women are the only demographic group in the US that consistently votes for Democrats and turns out for elections. Middle aged and older black men, like men of most demographic backgrounds, are becoming increasingly fascist curious with this contemporary GOP. (I don't know why you're ignoring my posts about age, but if you look at the data, the real distinctions are all age-related, whether crossed by race, gender, or nativity status.)

The data complicates any interpretation that the messaging is working. Asian and Latinx voters, in particular, are leaving the Democratic Party in numbers that should be concerning to people who care about things like politics, rights, etc.

If the only point that you're interested in discussing is "white people need to see to their own before criticizing other groups" then I don't think you'll find many people pushing back on that point. But you're conflating a bunch of points in your argument, most of which are not supported by the actual data.

 

[Strickland33]

I love how you guys have turned the word "liberal" into a perceived insult. Strong work there -- that accomplishes a lot -- helps bring everyone under the same tent.

you've been doing the same with the word progressive for the last five years now lol

also, who cares? can't imagine anybody on here isn't holding their nose and voting for Dem candidates in races that matter?

the harriot tweet that I posted is relevant here

 

[MHBDemon]

We are the first people in history to turn “liberal” into an insult.

 

[PhDeac]

Yeah but her rephrasing does address what you said in response to that tweet in a few posts, which is that other racial groups are okay with the messaging and, for the reason, the messaging might be the problem.

Again, you're an empiricist - you can look at the data. The only racial group that consistently votes for Democrats are Black people, but that number is actually showing that Black women are the only demographic group in the US that consistently votes for Democrats and turns out for elections. Middle aged and older black men, like men of most demographic backgrounds, are becoming increasingly fascist curious with this contemporary GOP. (I don't know why you're ignoring my posts about age, but if you look at the data, the real distinctions are all age-related, whether crossed by race, gender, or nativity status.)

The data complicates any interpretation that the messaging is working. Asian and Latinx voters, in particular, are leaving the Democratic Party in numbers that should be concerning to people who care about things like politics, rights, etc.

If the only point that you're interested in discussing is "white people need to see to their own before criticizing other groups" then I don't think you'll find many people pushing back on that point. But you're conflating a bunch of points in your argument, most of which are not supported by the actual data.

But that's not true. Other groups overwhelming vote for Democrats. Asian and Latinos vote Democrat at close to a 2-1 margin.

White people blaming declines in the share of Black male voters (like 6 or 7% of the population) going from like 90% to 85% instead of figuring out how to get White people (~60% of the population) from 43% to 48% makes her point that it's a white voters voting for white supremacy problem.

A better way to put it is the only racial group that consistently votes for Republicans is white people.

Strick, I see your posts on age, but I don't see how that's related to the tweet. Within age groups, the racial disparities still exist.

 

[Shooshmoo]

you've been doing the same with the word progressive for the last five years now lol

This is BS - I consider myself progressive. I have been critical of the dumbasses on the left who didn't vote for Hillary -- that's it. And whoever decided to call it "defund the police" because that was dumb as shit. Show me where I've used the word progressive as an insult.

 

[Shooshmoo]

We are the first people in history to turn “liberal” into an insult.

You're the first people who agree with 95% of what liberals believe in who use the word "liberal" as an insult.

 

[MHBDemon]

That 95% is a made up number. There are real distinctions between political thought.

 

[Kory]

whoever decided to call it "defund the police" because that was dumb as shit

?

 

[PhDeac]

That 95% is a made up number. There are real distinctions between political thought.

Any ideas on the actual number? I'm not sure how much difference between two people in their beliefs comes down to "political thought."

 

[MHBDemon]

Any ideas on the actual number? I'm not sure how much difference between two people in their beliefs comes down to "political thought."

I don’t really think it’s a meaningful exercise. Whether you want to call it 5% or 50% is irrelevant if you have two people disagreeing about, for example, defunding the police.

 

[Shooshmoo]

I don’t really think it’s a meaningful exercise. Whether you want to call it 5% or 50% is irrelevant if you have two people disagreeing about, for example, defunding the police.

Why would that make it an irrelevant exercise? The problem with certain folks on the left is that you're either all in with everything they support, or you're completely out. Not possible to message to them unless it's completely in lockstep. But, whatever, tired of having this same argument. Enjoy your weekends!

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I don't remember you offering your concern hierarchy and where racism stands on that hierarchy. It's bad faith to continually refuse to answer questions on the grounds that you have.

You’re right - I have bad faith in you, and that’s why I don’t feel like being jerked around giving you a dumb fucking list of hypothetical concerns that you are already aware of.

 

[Strickland33]

The EVERYONE ELSE is voters who aren’t white and “messaging.”

There’s a big difference between complaining and showing up and complaining and not showing up. The tweet calls out white Democrats who blame everyone else but themselves when the problem is not enough white people vote for Democrats. But it’s easier to blame “those people” rather than your shitty uncle.

But that's not true. Other groups overwhelming vote for Democrats. Asian and Latinos vote Democrat at close to a 2-1 margin.

White people blaming declines in the share of Black male voters (like 6 or 7% of the population) going from like 90% to 85% instead of figuring out how to get White people (~60% of the population) from 43% to 48% makes her point that it's a white voters voting for white supremacy problem.

A better way to put it is the only racial group that consistently votes for Republicans is white people.

Strick, I see your posts on age, but I don't see how that's related to the tweet. Within age groups, the racial disparities still exist.

I think you're conflating the broader problem of white people blaming with the subsequent discussion among white people interested in politics on this board. I just don't see anybody doing it and everybody seemingly agrees with you outside of the normal rabble with mdmh. White voters are the problem (full stop), but the defection of non-white voters to the GOP suggests that the message, whatever it is, isn't as compelling to voters who were once reliably voting Democrat.

For the purposes of the conversation, however, Republicans peeling off even single digit %s of the electorate have the cumulative consequences of growing the GOP base. It's not a matter of "whites are worse!!!!!" Everybody knows this. It's a question of who is leaving and why. Unfortunately, it's really demographically patterned. Men across demographic categories, particularly men over 30, are switching their affiliation. Is it on the margins or is it representative of a broader trend? Dems seem to think it's the former, which is a helluva gamble considering what we know about voting patterns and age.

Anyway, age matters because young POC voters are consistently voting for Democrats (and the largest share of White voters who reliably vote for Democrats are young). The problem is that the Democratic Party, as it embraces nihlistic gerontocracy, is not outreaching to young voters (or expanding platforms in ways that will galvanize them), which has the societal effect of creating Republican voters as cohorts age up.

Seems like an important distinction if you care about voting patterns and the future of the Republic.

 

[PhDeac]

Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: We finally tackle the Trolley Problem

You’re right - I have bad faith in you, and that’s why I don’t feel like being jerked around giving you a dumb fucking list of hypothetical concerns that you are already aware of.

Except I'm not aware of them beyond your insistence that class is more important than race in a society in which race predicts class.