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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

PhDeac said:
That’s overly simplistic. White suburban women in Gen X largely don’t like Hillary, at least not nearly as much as boomer women. They hate Trump. They’re already galvanized. It would be a missed opportunity not to court them. And given how districts are drawn, there’s no effective pathway to win the House without suburbs.
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Saying these suburbanites are galvanized because "they hate Trump" just supports the authors argument that molding policy to court them is a misguided, short-sighted strategy. It's playing directly into the hands of an elite political class who have no higher goals than maintaining the status quo.
 
Perhaps I should have framed that differently. These are women who don’t like the Clinton, liked Obama, but were never motivated to run for office or be politically active until Trump.

I think there’s an untold story about the Monica Lewinsky generation, women 18-35 during the Lewinsky scandal, who were permanently turned off by the Clintons. Some lean right as a result. Some lean left and held their nose to vote for Hillary. But they have the political will and power to stand up now.
 
PhDeac said:
Perhaps I should have framed that differently. These are women who don’t like the Clinton, liked Obama, but were never motivated to run for office or be politically active until Trump.

I think there’s an untold story about the Monica Lewinsky generation, women 18-35 during the Lewinsky scandal, who were permanently turned off by the Clintons. Some lean right as a result. Some lean left and held their nose to vote for Hillary. But they have the political will and power to stand up now.
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I believe you that there is a small segment of white collar moderate suburbanites who didn't like Clinton, but you aren't making a convincing argument that the Democratic Party should further bend their idealogy rightward to chase those people and those votes, especially at the cost of more progressive blue collar votes.

From the op-ed: "Democrats cannot cater to white swing voters in affluent suburbs and also promote policies that fundamentally challenge income inequality, exclusionary zoning, housing segregation, school inequality, police brutality and mass incarceration.
The political culture of upscale suburbs revolves around resource hoarding of children’s educational advantages, pervasive opposition to economic incarceration and affordable housing, and the consistent defense of homeowner privileges and taxpayer rights. Indeed, unlike traditional blue-collar Democrats, white-collar professionals across the ideological spectrum — for example, in the high-tech enclaves of California and Northern Virginia, which combined contain eight of the 15 most highly educated congressional districts in the nation — generally endorse tough-on-crime policies, express little interest in protections for unions and sympathize with the economic agenda of Wall Street and Silicon Valley."
 
I’m not equating white suburban women with a shift to the right like you are.
 
PhDeac said:
I’m not equating white suburban women with a shift to the right like you are.
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I'm not sure what you're doing or saying now. You first said the piece was too simplistic, because...umm..maybe the only thing holding back white suburban gen-x women from voting Dem in 2016 was a personal dislike for Hillary Clinton? As in, those women support the Democratic party in every other regard, besides Clinton, and share the progressive ideology? Do you honestly believe that's a large enough voting bloc to counter the op-ed?
 
Suburbanites barely went for Trump.

Dems should put together a winning progressive message/platform and sell it honestly as good for all.

Cede no demographic.
 
ConnorEl said:
Suburbanites barely went for Trump.
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Your context is wrong.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/08/trump-white-working-class-gop-rich-people


"Exit polls are imperfect. But according to the exit data we have, Trump did poorly among voters making less than $50,000 a year (roughly the poorest half of US society); Clinton won this group by roughly 11%.
Trump’s gains appear to have come mostly from the top half of income earners. In 2008, Obama and McCain each received 49% of the vote from people making more than $50,000. In 2016, Trump bested Clinton by 4% in the $50,000–100,000 income bracket, by 1% in the $100,000–200,000 bracket, by 1% in the $200,000–250,000 bracket, and by 2% among those earning more than $250,000.
These gains were significant: they constituted the vast majority of voters, at around 64%.
In America, the top 10% amounts to around 30 million people. A 2% gain among this politically influential group would be immense, especially in an election where Trump lost the popular vote by three million.
The bottom line is this: Trump consistently outperformed Clinton among the most well off, not the bottom half."
 
ConnorEl said:
Trump 49, Clinton 45 for suburban voters.


From here
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Yes, and the narrative that the Democratic party needs to become more fiscally moderate and "pragmatic" to win back the suburbs is trash. It's astroturfing the intentions of the corporate donor class. Fiscal conservativism, foreign imperialism, and authoritarian policing are antithecal to the Democratic platform, and there should never be room in the party for that type of idealogy, no matter how desperate.
 
ConnorEl said:
Suburbanites barely went for Trump.

Dems should put together a winning progressive message/platform and sell it honestly as good for all.

Cede no demographic.
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Exactly. It’s not complex. MDMH is stuck in the same either/or politics as the mainstream Democrats.
 
the best way to advance progressive goals is to vote for a republican than support the "Democrats"
 
There you go again. You say you believe in Progressive ideology but you don’t think it has broad enough appeal to reach suburban women.
 
My main problem with the NY Times opinion piece is that is seems theoretical and not reflective of what is happening on the ground in 2018. One of the grand total of 2 examples they give isn't even running in the suburbs.

The Philadelphia area has a number of districts that are almost entirely suburban after the new congressional maps were put in place. In one, nine of the ten Dems running committed to voting for legislation that would defund ICE. In another the local Dem party threw their weight behind arguably the more progressive candidate. Another had heavy union support.

The writers point out that suburbs are getting more diverse, but don't seem to connect that to the idea that the voters there are moving left.
 
Shooshmoo said:
This is just fucking dumb. I'm sorry, but I think you're dumb.
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Fuck you, man. Make a damn argument. Defend your beliefs. I do it every day on this board. It's no surprise that a condemnation of wealthy white collar suburbs as conservative would piss off a bunch of Wake grads in the Trump era. None of you neo-libs want to be associated with that clown. There is plenty of historical data showing that affluent white people are conservative and vote that way, to protect their financial interests and institutions that protect property rights.
 
uh, you're the one making the assertion that "mainstream" Democrats are just Republicans that don't want to be racist
 
ImTheCaptain said:
uh, you're the one making the assertion that "mainstream" Democrats are just Republicans that don't want to be racist
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Maybe you have short term memory loss, but I spend the majority of my time in the tunnels asserting that very opinion with sources. I'm not going to break down the argument everytime a lurker sees a random shitpost and gets pissed. Shoo could just fucking read the last 30 posts in this very thread, it's not that difficult.
 
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