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Ongoing US GOP Debacle Thread: Seditious Republicans march toward authoritarianism

We better figure out how to better regulate ourselves.

Or there may be a bloody revolution, or an attempt at one.
 
TurtLocker said:
And yes, I realize the definition of socialism is a point where this whole discussion gets muddled. In my view “socialism” means government taking hold of the means of production, or that being the end goal. I understand progressive policy is generally aimed at the regulation of the free market, and I of course agree that is necessary to some extent, but when people start moving away from calling themselves simply democrats and instead socialists it makes me wonder what the definition means to them, because when we start using a term that’s historically used to describe a system of government that I think we can all agree is not a good one, I find it really concerning, especially with the amount of anti-capitalist rhetoric floating around with the young high passion low knowledge crowd. I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding about how the Nordic countries gained the prosperity they have now, and a lot of misconceptions given those countries are extremely capitalistic in an economic sense. I think this discussion is moving away from “to what degree do we regulate this system” into “why don’t we just burn it down and start fresh” which is what I think is crazy. I feel a lot of young people have no conception of how incredibly lucky they are to live in this country.
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Maybe I don’t hear it as much, but I feel like you’re overstating the popularity of those “burn it down” opinions. Similarly, it seems like you’re equating those opinions with Trumpism to dismiss them as if they’re both the extra fringes but I think that way understates the extent to which Trumpism has taken over the GOP.
 
06deacon said:
Maybe I don’t hear it as much, but I feel like you’re overstating the popularity of those “burn it down” opinions. Similarly, it seems like you’re equating those opinions with Trumpism to dismiss them as if they’re both the extra fringes but I think that way understates the extent to which Trumpism has taken over the GOP.
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Agreed. Hyperbole plus false equivalency is one of the main tools Republicans use to defend Trumpism.
 
TurtLocker said:
Fringe, insane, far left things I think are being increasingly seen as “common sense” by the left:
Believe all women
Socialism is good
Transgenderism isn’t a mental illness
Free speech isn’t ideal, the European model of civility and decency over liberty and freedom is ideal
“Hate speech” should be regulated
Harassing public officials in public spaces is okay and necessary
Etc.
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I'm good for about 4 of these.
 
TurtLocker said:
Well perhaps I can change your perspective, because I have some very close left wing friends and I feel like after having real discussion with genuine mutual respect built over years of friendship we simply have key differences in the way we view the world. It’s really hard to see that, especially in today’s political climate, because it’s easy to lump people into categories and associate them with the worst of those categories. Lord knows I’m guilty of this, I’m regularly exposed to articles about the most insane fringe left wing shit and it’s hard not to think “wow, all Democrats are crazy.” I mean I certainly watch Fox News and laugh at how ridiculous it is at times, but by the same token I just saw a CNN anchor text Ray J for comment on Kanye visiting the White House. It’s so easy to see that kind of shit and just say well, whatever, I guess I’m a crazy Republican because I can’t abide by this level of crazy. I agree most of the socialist types probably mean well, but when I hear people saying things like “cancel capitalism” it makes me genuinely afraid for the future of our country. I’m happy to have conversations with those who propose well regulated capitalism, and debate the level of regulation that’s appropriate, but when I see people who think we just need to throw it out the window it makes me wonder if people are even entertaining reason.
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Watching cable news entertainment seems counterintuitive to entertaining reason.
 
[video]https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000006154922/fascism-leaders-america-trump.html?playlistId=1194811622299&region=video-grid&version=video-grid-thumbnail&contentCollection=Opinion&contentPlacement=0&module=recent-videos&action=click&pgType=Multimedia&eventName=video-grid-click[/video]
 
TurtLocker said:
And yes, I realize the definition of socialism is a point where this whole discussion gets muddled. In my view “socialism” means government taking hold of the means of production, or that being the end goal. I understand progressive policy is generally aimed at the regulation of the free market, and I of course agree that is necessary to some extent, but when people start moving away from calling themselves simply democrats and instead socialists it makes me wonder what the definition means to them, because when we start using a term that’s historically used to describe a system of government that I think we can all agree is not a good one, I find it really concerning, especially with the amount of anti-capitalist rhetoric floating around with the young high passion low knowledge crowd. I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding about how the Nordic countries gained the prosperity they have now, and a lot of misconceptions given those countries are extremely capitalistic in an economic sense. I think this discussion is moving away from “to what degree do we regulate this system” into “why don’t we just burn it down and start fresh” which is what I think is crazy. I feel a lot of young people have no conception of how incredibly lucky they are to live in this country.
Click to expand...

On these here boards that you have identified as an echo chamber of radical leftism, I think there is exactly one avowed socialist, and there is a giant thread where pretty much every other poster tells him his ideas are misguided.

Obviously these boards are not reflective of the country or Democrats or liberals in any meaningful way. That said, I think your misconception of the range of opinions on these boards is a pretty typical conservative response in which even the most modest efforts to regulate the capitalist economy or spread its wealth a little more broadly are reflexively damned as "socialism".
 
ConnorEl said:
I’m not gonna give it/him a new thread—just put it here.

Pretty sure he doesn’t deserve singular credit. Still, worth a read.


The Man Who Broke Politics
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lol replublicans:

A well-known animal fanatic, Gingrich was the one who suggested we meet at the Philadelphia Zoo. He used to come here as a kid, and has fond memories of family picnics on warm afternoons, gazing up at the giraffes and rhinos and dreaming of one day becoming a zookeeper. But we aren’t here just for the nostalgia.

“There is,” he explained soon after arriving, “a lot we can learn from the natural world.”
Click to expand...
 
Deacon923 said:
On these here boards that you have identified as an echo chamber of radical leftism, I think there is exactly one avowed socialist, and there is a giant thread where pretty much every other poster tells him his ideas are misguided.

Obviously these boards are not reflective of the country or Democrats or liberals in any meaningful way. That said, I think your misconception of the range of opinions on these boards is a pretty typical conservative response in which even the most modest efforts to regulate the capitalist economy or spread its wealth a little more broadly are reflexively damned as "socialism".
Click to expand...

That's the impression I usually get from most conservatives - that almost any attempt to even regulate (much less nationalize) the economy is tantamount to socialism. Which is not only inaccurate, but ignores the basic thrust of American history since the Progressive Era, and also ignores the excesses and failures of laissez-faire capitalism during the Gilded Age and 1920s that led to the federal and state regulations in the first place.
 
People who reside at one extreme or the other of the political Spectrum always try to label moderates as extremists from the other side.
 
Deacon923 said:
...I think there is exactly one avowed socialist, and there is a giant thread where pretty much every other poster tells him his ideas are misguided.

...Obviously these boards are not reflective of the country or Democrats or liberals in any meaningful way... a pretty typical conservative response in which even the most modest efforts to regulate the capitalist economy or spread its wealth a little more broadly are reflexively damned as "socialism".
Click to expand...

Hmm...
1. Yes, this board is an echo chamber of out of touch elitist Democrats, talking down to anyone that disagrees with them, from the left or right.

2. Yes, these boards are not reflective of the country in any meaningful way.

3. Yes, even moderate Democrats are damned as Socialists, by conservatives, and despite that, the moderate Dems would still rather expend all their effort compromising with conservatives...
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Hmm...
1. Yes, this board is an echo chamber of out of touch elitist Democrats, talking down to anyone that disagrees with them, from the left or right.

2. Yes, these boards are not reflective of the country in any meaningful way.

3. Yes, even moderate Democrats are damned as Socialists, by conservatives, and despite that, the moderate Dems would still rather expend all their effort compromising with conservatives...
Click to expand...

winning hearts and minds, every day all day
 
ImTheCaptain said:
winning hearts and minds, every day all day
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Literally yes they are. Maybe you didn't catch this -
Deacon923 said:
...
Obviously these boards are not reflective of the country or Democrats or liberals in any meaningful way...
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I don't exactly come here everyday to take the pulse of the common American
 
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