Partial deal reached with Iran

[sailordeac]

I'm just an unfrozen caveman lawyer. Your nuance and participation trophies frighten and confuse me. I know nothing of your modern era inventions and sensitivities. But I do know this...

When a couple of harmless fat protestants from Indiana didn't want to bake a cake for a gay couple, the indignation was a'flowin'. Protests. Boycotts. Private sector economic sanctions and embargo, if you will. And the people rejoiced.

But when the Iranian regime throws gay people off of roofs to their deaths, you guys choose to lift the economic sanctions and give them the bomb. Because Obama.

Glad to see that at long last thawed troglodytes - even lawyers - now have access to the internet. This is a great country.

Your sudden concern for the problems of the homosexual community in Iran are truly touching. The Chapel Hill gay community must be proud of you. They are all probably saying, "My, how you have grown, how progressive you have become."

I can only speak for myself but on the whole I do not find the worry over Iranian gay rights to be the most important concern either in my own life currently, or for US-Iranian relations. It seems to me - no disrespect intended - that there are more important issues.

While I am not personally a proponent of homosexual marriage, I do believe that both homosexuals and Iranians should be allowed to eat cake. And I have not heard any reasonable objections.

 

[ONW]

Do we have a date set upon which we are giving Iran the bomb? I couldn't find it in any of the news sources. What kind of ceremony should we expect?

What day does the Trump/Trump's ego ticket take office?

 

[TownieDeac]

Nuclear ramifications? Stop treading bro. Iran isn't going to drop the bomb on anyone anytime soon. They're oligarch leadership is fat and happy and wants nothing to do with a nuclear holocaust. And Bebe is just being the neo-con he keeps getting elected to be. Power is a hell of a drug. Nobody is starting WWIII.

Now regional Sunni/Shia proxy wars? That shit is real. Unfortunately the short term answer is probably going to have to be containment. Let them fight over Allah and only intervene when it's gets out of hand (i.e. IS) and avoid nation building at all cost. No more Iraq or Afghanistans. I don't think it would be the worst thing ever to passively allow a large chunk of the area revert back to tribalism. A lot of those countries make no fucking sense.

That's really nowhere close to answering my question, but ok.

 

[BillBrasky]

That's really nowhere close to answering my question, but ok.

I assumed that had the intelligence to figure out my answer to your question from one of my earlier posts

If I need to go back and directly quote it I can, but probably not until tomorrow bc it's super annoying to do it on Tapa.

 

[jhmd2000]

North Korea has nuclear weapons and haven't done shit with them -- other than minor saber rattling with missile tests.


Oh, and this deal walks back Iran's ability to make a nuclear weapon, if they hold up their end of the bargain. But that is the risk inherent in every treaty/compromise/etc. The other side remaining true to their word. But if they do it, then Iran doesn't have uranium enriched enough to be weaponized for over a decade. That's surely better than them having one in 3 months, right?

Thanks again, Bills Clinton and Richardson.

 

[ONW]

FOX News...Obama bitch slaps Israel and we're all going to die....

 

[jhmd2000]

Glad to see that at long last thawed troglodytes - even lawyers - now have access to the internet. This is a great country.

Your sudden concern for the problems of the homosexual community in Iran are truly touching. The Chapel Hill gay community must be proud of you. They are all probably saying, "My, how you have grown, how progressive you have become."

I can only speak for myself but on the whole I do not find the worry over Iranian gay rights to be the most important concern either in my own life currently, or for US-Iranian relations. It seems to me - no disrespect intended - that there are more important issues.

While I am not personally a proponent of homosexual marriage, I do believe that both homosexuals and Iranians should be allowed to eat cake. And I have not heard any reasonable objections.

All politics is local, I guess. I just don't think we should give these idiots nuclear weapons. Even if Obama does it.

 

[ONW]

All politics is local, I guess. I just don't think we should give these idiots nuclear weapons. Even if Obama does it.

Obama is hand delivering Iran nuclear weapons I heard on Drudge.

 

[sailordeac]

All politics is local, I guess. I just don't think we should give these idiots nuclear weapons. Even if Obama does it.

Alas, it is not for us to give them, or - unfortunately - to deny nukes to the Iranians. It is, I admit, a cruel and imperfect world. And, if I might confide in you as a friend: if the Almighty had consulted with me before the creation (big bang for all you atheists and science worshippers), I would certainly have recommended something different.

 

[deacvision7]

Thanks again, Bills Clinton and Richardson.

Sure, but the George W. Bush administration has its own share of blame with North Korea moving from nuclear capable to nuclear weapon capable. And their nuclear weapons program testing while Reagan was President.


And bringing this back on topic somewhat, I say this knowing full well that it is feasible that the Iranian government is just now copying North Korea's playbook of "talk and stall".

 

[Liquid Karma]

President Obama apparently got a bit pissed when someone asked why we didn't get 4 American prisoners out of Iran as part of this deal.

I thought it was a fair question.

 

[vadimivich]

We have international consensus (although I do think we were the main proponent of this)

Russia had an enormous amount to do with this deal. It's not an accident that Lavrov was telling the press about how they were glad this was behind them and they could begin working together with Iran on shared security issues. A powerful Shia state to counterbalance the Sunni extremism which bleeds into the Caucasus would be a huge assistance to Russia in a lot of ways. They are also the nation with the most to gain from trading nuclear power technology, fuel and weapons systems with Iran.

Russia and the United States have an awkward dance when it comes to nuclear issues. Combined we possess the vast majority of nuclear weapons in the world, as well as by far the most technically advanced nuclear science programs. We provide the vast majority of the funding and employees and expertise for various agencies such as the IAEA and the CTBTO (even though the US hasn't ratified the CTBT) and the non-proliferation apparatus serves our joint interests brilliantly. Russia, in particular, has it's role as a world superpower almost solely on the back of it's nuclear arms, and it viciously guards that position and sees any dilution of it's power there as a threat to it's sovereignty ... Russia has the most to lose when a new nation builds a bomb.

As more and more comes out in the Russian press and other coverage, it sounds like Russia was worried that continued stringent sanctions would harden the most conservative parts of the Iranian government into committing to building a bomb at all costs and effectively would drive them into the arms of a weapon. Combine that with their desire to work with them against militants in the region and open trade back up, etc ... Russia was at least as much of a driver of this deal as anyone. And given that awkward dance we've done for 60+ years now, when your partner really wants to dance to a different tune you have to work with them. It's a fucked up symbiotic relationship we have in this field in particular.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

I have neither Israeli statehood or membership in the GOP. I just have the modest ability to view world events through a rational lense. It's not all black and white you self-righteous wannabe NE liberal.

God I hope law school doesn't turn my little brother it another know-it-all with zero fucking common sense.

I was just distinguishing that your viewpoint isn't what most people are criticizing it for, not that I disagree with your position.

 

[ThinkingWithMyDeac]

I still don't understand why people think that its so fucking hard to copy 1940's technology. Maybe its the America is the greatest country on earth blessed by God act but Jesus didn't come down and give us the blueprints for the bomb. The only reason why countries agree not to make a bomb is to be good world citizens not because they can't figure out how. If Iran wanted a nuclear weapon they would get a nuclear weapon so anything that makes them pull back some is a good thing. I mean top 5 shittiest country in the world has nukes now.

 

[vadimivich]

All politics is local, I guess. I just don't think we should give these idiots nuclear weapons. Even if Obama does it.

If they want a bomb, they will build one. There is no way for us to actually deny a nuclear weapon (which is ancient technology at this point) to a country that truly wants to build one (see: Republic of Korea, Democratic People's edition). It's impossible. If Japan, Germany, Brazil or any of a number of other countries rocked up tomorrow and said "Fuck you guys, we're building a warhead" there'd be no way to stop it.

Once you accept that reality, then the idea becomes how to best convince the non-nuclear armed countries that making a bomb isn't in their best interests. That has to be done with a carrot and a stick and the support of the entire global community, and it becomes an extremely complicated and difficult process.

 

[Deacon923]

President Obama apparently got a bit pissed when someone asked why we didn't get 4 American prisoners out of Iran as part of this deal.

I thought it was a fair question.

Goalpost moving at its finest. That's all I'm seeing from the right. The goal has always been to keep Iran from getting nukes. This deal seems to me like the best, most credible and actually possible way of doing that. So the Obama-haters don't have much to criticize on that front, so they have to throw in every "but why didn't you..." they can think of to trash this deal.

 

[UNCG Deac]

President Obama apparently got a bit pissed when someone asked why we didn't get 4 American prisoners out of Iran as part of this deal.

I thought it was a fair question.

The headlines made him look bad, but I thought he actually answered the question well. Here is the transcript:

OBAMA: I’ve to give you credit for how you craft those questions. The notion that I’m content as I celebrate with American citizens languishing in Iranian jails — Major, that’s nonsense, and you should know better. I’ve met with the families of some of those folks. Nobody is content, and our diplomats and our teams are working diligently to try to get them out. Now, if the question is why we did not tie the negotiations to their release, think about the logic that that creates.

Suddenly Iran realizes, you know what? Maybe we can get additional concessions out of the Americans by holding these individuals. Makes it much more difficult for us to walk away if Iran somehow thinks that a nuclear deal is dependent in some fashion on the nuclear deal, and, by the way, if we had walked away from the nuclear deal, we’d still be pushing them just as hard to get these folks out. That’s why those issues are not connected, but we are working every single day to try to get them out and won’t stop until they are out and rejoined with their families.

 

[vadimivich]

I still don't understand why people think that its so fucking hard to copy 1940's technology. Maybe its the America is the greatest country on earth blessed by God act but Jesus didn't come down and give us the blueprints for the bomb. The only reason why countries agree not to make a bomb is to be good world citizens not because they can't figure out how. If Iran wanted a nuclear weapon they would get a nuclear weapon so anything that makes them pull back some is a good thing. I mean top 5 shittiest country in the world has nukes now.

Pakistan - a country which can barely be called a "country" in a lot of ways, started their weapons program more than 40 years ago. If you think about the technological leaps made in the last 40 years and think that a bunch of guys in what were effectively wooden shacks in the mountains of Pakistan could make a bomb back then ... yeah.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Yeah that Obama response seems pretty level-headed in what was a clear "GOTCHYA" moment from whoever asked that question. Probably someone working for the blaze or fox news, but I do wonder how they got press credentials.

 

[Deacon923]

Yeah that Obama response seems pretty level-headed in what was a clear "GOTCHYA" moment from whoever asked that question. Probably someone working for the blaze or fox news, but I do wonder how they got press credentials.

Major Garrett is the chief White House correspondent for CBS news. I hope they're embarrassed.