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Planned Parenthood Attack

I think most pro-life can accept a group lying about who they are in an attempt to expose PP's pretty heinous practices of killing human life and making a profit off the parts. Most would view it as a lie in the same way that a Christian missionary who lives under false pretenses in a foreign country in order to spread the Gospel would be technically lying to the government of the country they are living in. So it sounds nice to rag on the guys for misrepresenting themselves, but in a similar situation I don't think any of you would bat an eye if someone was exposing something you felt was an atrocity against mankind and had to misrepresent themselves in order to accomplish their task.

I understand why the video creators are being prosecuted, but it is circuitous logic IMO. The video creators weren't attempting to purchase human organs. Because, if they were purchasing human organs then what exactly did PP kill? A human? If the proceeds of abortion produces human body parts, then it would seem fairly easy to reason that the being that destroyed was a human. We have gone around and around on this, so I am going to bow out, but I am not surprised with the charges, nor the fact that even the interpretation of the charges still falls along the same lines on whether you see the child in the womb as a human or as a mass of cells that also happens to have all the same organs that humans do (coincidence I guess).

ONW - I wouldnt apologize either. The video creators shined a new light on the hypocrisy of abortion. I think they are to be commended.

Good to see TAB in there fighting the condescension fight though. Bravo sir.
 
What I poop out in the morning is human waste, seems fairly easy to reason that the poop was a human.
 
Wrangor said:
I think most pro-life can accept a group lying about who they are in an attempt to expose PP's pretty heinous practices of killing human life and making a profit off the parts. Most would view it as a lie in the same way that a Christian missionary who lives under false pretenses in a foreign country in order to spread the Gospel would be technically lying to the government of the country they are living in. So it sounds nice to rag on the guys for misrepresenting themselves, but in a similar situation I don't think any of you would bat an eye if someone was exposing something you felt was an atrocity against mankind and had to misrepresent themselves in order to accomplish their task.

I understand why the video creators are being prosecuted, but it is circuitous logic IMO. The video creators weren't attempting to purchase human organs. Because, if they were purchasing human organs then what exactly did PP kill? A human? If the proceeds of abortion produces human body parts, then it would seem fairly easy to reason that the being that destroyed was a human. We have gone around and around on this, so I am going to bow out, but I am not surprised with the charges, nor the fact that even the interpretation of the charges still falls along the same lines on whether you see the child in the womb as a human or as a mass of cells that also happens to have all the same organs that humans do (coincidence I guess).

ONW - I wouldnt apologize either. The video creators shined a new light on the hypocrisy of abortion. I think they are to be commended.

Good to see TAB in there fighting the condescension fight though. Bravo sir.
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recovering costs is not the same as making profits
 
Fox News commentator says this was a "runaway grand jury." I don't understand how there was a "runaway grand jury" isn't that the role of a grand jury - to hand down indictments where they believe a crime may have been committed? What is "runaway" about that? That's their entire role.

The misdemeanor charge of trying to buy organs will be interesting. The entire belief that the sting operatives had was PP was going to sell them organs and so to me it seems clear that the purchasers themselves intended to "buy organs." Will be some mistake of fact/law issues there I would think. I do agree that's a bit circuitous at points. I also don't think a valid defense is going to be "we didn't intend to buy baby parts" when that was the stated intention of the endeavor.

The heftier charges: Mr. Daleiden and Sandra S. Merritt, 62, were indicted on felony charges of tampering with a governmental record with the intent to defraud, are not circuitous. They made fake California licenses and offered them up for evidence that they were doctors it seems. That's just illegal. What morons.
 
Wrangor said:
I think most pro-life can accept a group lying about who they are in an attempt to expose PP's pretty heinous practices of killing human life and making a profit off the parts. Most would view it as a lie in the same way that a Christian missionary who lives under false pretenses in a foreign country in order to spread the Gospel would be technically lying to the government of the country they are living in. So it sounds nice to rag on the guys for misrepresenting themselves, but in a similar situation I don't think any of you would bat an eye if someone was exposing something you felt was an atrocity against mankind and had to misrepresent themselves in order to accomplish their task.

I understand why the video creators are being prosecuted, but it is circuitous logic IMO. The video creators weren't attempting to purchase human organs. Because, if they were purchasing human organs then what exactly did PP kill? A human? If the proceeds of abortion produces human body parts, then it would seem fairly easy to reason that the being that destroyed was a human. We have gone around and around on this, so I am going to bow out, but I am not surprised with the charges, nor the fact that even the interpretation of the charges still falls along the same lines on whether you see the child in the womb as a human or as a mass of cells that also happens to have all the same organs that humans do (coincidence I guess).

ONW - I wouldnt apologize either. The video creators shined a new light on the hypocrisy of abortion. I think they are to be commended.

Good to see TAB in there fighting the condescension fight though. Bravo sir.
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Commend these guys -- doing God's work!

"Lastly, the Department of State Health Services announced earlier this month that it did not plan to renew an HIV prevention grant for Planned Parenthood’s affiliate in Houston after 28 years.

A Planned Parenthood spokeswoman said the organization used the grant money to conduct HIV and STD tests and distributed over 350,000 condoms in 2014. Harris County has the highest HIV case numbers in the state.

“This decision comes after years of repeated political attacks against women’s health and Planned Parenthood that have decimated access to affordable preventative health care and made safe, legal abortion almost impossible to access,” Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast said in a statement earlier this month.

The state-run HIV Prevention program issued over $13 million in grant funds in 2015. Planned Parenthood’s Houston affiliate received $618,000."

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2015/12/in-2015-texas-aimed-to-defund-planned-parenthood-and-partially-succeeded.html/

“Some of those implications are still, we really don't know where they will land. We do know that our HIV grant that we had for nearly 30-years was cut off.”

Tafolla says the grant provided free HIV testing and counseling to more than 145,000 people around Houston for more than 28 years. However, it was pulled in December.

http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/2016/01/27/lawyers-request-da-drop-charges-planned-parenthood-case/79431886/
 
Wrangor said:
I think most pro-life can accept a group lying about who they are in an attempt to expose PP's pretty heinous practices of killing human life and making a profit off the parts. Most would view it as a lie in the same way that a Christian missionary who lives under false pretenses in a foreign country in order to spread the Gospel would be technically lying to the government of the country they are living in. So it sounds nice to rag on the guys for misrepresenting themselves, but in a similar situation I don't think any of you would bat an eye if someone was exposing something you felt was an atrocity against mankind and had to misrepresent themselves in order to accomplish their task.

I understand why the video creators are being prosecuted, but it is circuitous logic IMO. The video creators weren't attempting to purchase human organs. Because, if they were purchasing human organs then what exactly did PP kill? A human? If the proceeds of abortion produces human body parts, then it would seem fairly easy to reason that the being that destroyed was a human. We have gone around and around on this, so I am going to bow out, but I am not surprised with the charges, nor the fact that even the interpretation of the charges still falls along the same lines on whether you see the child in the womb as a human or as a mass of cells that also happens to have all the same organs that humans do (coincidence I guess).

ONW - I wouldnt apologize either. The video creators shined a new light on the hypocrisy of abortion. I think they are to be commended.

Good to see TAB in there fighting the condescension fight though. Bravo sir.
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What hypocrisy? When has someone ever denied that a fetus wasn't human? Your fingernail is human.
 
PhDeac said:
Wrangor can accept continuing to lie about that for the right cause.
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it's really ridiculous.

also, since abortion is legal, what is the problem with using the tissue and organs for research? what would the wrangors of the world prefer? burning the aborted fetus? cooking it into some type of stew?
 
I do agree with the tenor of Wrangor's post FWIW. My belief is that pro-lifers aren't going as far as their proclaimed ideologies take them. If you truly believe that abortion is murder I think the response would be a far greater outcry than we actually have. These sting operatives at least tried to put their money where their mouth was, they just happened to likely commit a felony while doing it and are going to have to do the time.
 
the thought of a Christian Fundamentalist government is almost as terrifying as radical islam
 
Also there's no doubt that the right-wing media will hook onto the misdemeanor charge similar in a way that Wrangor has while omitting the felony charge of falsifying documents. I'm not saying that was intentional on Wrangor's part, but this will be a seminar in obfuscating the actual relevant legal issue at play in this specific case from the right.
 
There's also the pesky fact that the runaway grand jury is in Texas, not Vermont. Understand the opposition to abortion, but the numbers against an outright ban (83%) are overwhelmingly against the unwavering GOP platform plank. Other than Trump, 2016 may be the first time the GOP nominee favors outright ban. Can't understand any objection to the exception for health of the mother. GOP will still have a tough time winning presidential elections as long as social conservatives dictate scorched earth policies on abortion and gays. Why give in to people who marginalize both Christianity and conservative politics?
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I do agree with the tenor of Wrangor's post FWIW. My belief is that pro-lifers aren't going as far as their proclaimed ideologies take them. If you truly believe that abortion is murder I think the response would be a far greater outcry than we actually have. These sting operatives at least tried to put their money where their mouth was, they just happened to likely commit a felony while doing it and are going to have to do the time.
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I said this last year and people on this board acted like I was crazy. If abortion was murder, then women who have abortions would be treated like murderers - child murderers.
 
Yeah in a state where the governor, lieutenant governor, AG, and prosecutor were all from the GOP, a grand jury still didn't indict PP (and indicted the sting operatives). That's not a "runaway" grand jury, that's a grand jury who has no idea what the prosecutor was trying to accomplish OR just thought he was grandstanding/didn't present anything worthwhile other than show that the operatives may have committed a crime.
 
These dudes are indirectly responsible for the crazy gunman in Colorado and wrangor is applauding them. Good look
 
Very close friends are moderate 'Pubs who are deeply religious. One of their kids is a newlywed pregnant with her first child. She has a sibling who's a med school prof at a top ten school specializing in high risk pregnancies. There were complications with the pregnancy and there hadn't been a heartbeat for six weeks. Technically the daughter had a late term abortion, but the thought process was she would miscarry eventually, the baby was already dead, so why not deal with the inevitable on their own timetable? Everyone involved was on the same page, but the GOP platform would have banned the procedure.
 
According to the lawyer representing Planned Parenthood, Daleiden sent an email offering to buy fetal tissue for $1,600 per sample, which led to the charge of attempting to buy organs. That seems........ really dumb.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I said this last year and people on this board acted like I was crazy. If abortion was murder, then women who have abortions would be treated like murderers - child murderers.
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Yes, and if you really believed they were child murderers and there were millions of them, and they were government-sanctioned murders, you would do anything in your power to put a stop to them, including lying, cheating, killing, or -- most easily -- leaving your fucking country and going somewhere where this doesn't happen. The fact that this does not happen regularly tells you these people lack conviction and/or feel compelled to take this position because if their religion, but don't really -- I mean really -- believe it.
 
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