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Pope Francis Basically Just Admitted There May Not Be a God

I have no idea what this means. Financing iniquity? Does that come with a Scarlett letter I ?

It means you can't give money to people who use that money to get drunk and shoot one another or copulate (getting STDs and producing babies they then abort) and then expect God to bless your blithering idiocy. God will raise your health care premiums.
 
It means you can't give money to people who use that money to get drunk and shoot one another or copulate (getting STDs and producing babies they then abort) and then expect God to bless your blithering idiocy. God will raise your health care premiums.

So there shouldn't marketing and entertainment expenses allowed for corporations.
 
It means you can't give money to people who use that money to get drunk and shoot one another or copulate (getting STDs and producing babies they then abort) and then expect God to bless your blithering idiocy. God will raise your health care premiums.

WITH A GUN.
 
Thanks for the super-childish retaliatory negreg, Wrangor. Very Christian of you, like many of your posts in this thread.
 
Not saying atonement isn't there, but sometimes later understandings become bigger than the original intention. Think about it- the disciples are thinking Jesus is a really special teacher, maybe they even think he's the Messiah. A Messiah who then dies. They start to think about the Jewish practices of Temple sacrifice (which is now impossible by the time the gospels were written because the Temple was destroyed), and they observe that Jesus' death seemed like the ultimate sacrifice for sin. So you get that great imagery of Jesus as the lamb in Hebrews and the Good Shepherd in John.

And this isn't just them making stuff up- Jesus (at least the way the gospels depict him) intentionally chose Passover as the time to go to Jerusalem and stir up controversy. The symbolism wasn't lost on him.

But if the cross was about the sins of the world, if that was the entire purpose of the Incarnation, then I think we've missed the whole point. 1) What sort of God demands a blood sacrifice for the atonement of sin- and then decides to send a child to die? 2) What does it say about God that God can't forgive sins in any other way? Is God bound by some rule book for gods? 3) A divine suicide mission just makes no sense given the understanding of Israel or the canon of Scripture. 4) There are several places in Scripture where the notion of God demanding sin sacrifices is challenged (Psalm 50, for example). So if the blood of goats doesn't satisfy God (but a contrite and loving heart does), why do we insist that God is angry and demands justice? If you're looking for more, read some of the earliest writings about the Church, especially from the Eastern traditions. The fact that the first followers of Jesus used the fish as their symbol and not the cross should be telling. But the cross can be used to exploit. If we are wretched souls in need of salvation, which is only afforded through Jesus' death and bestowed upon us through Baptism in the Church, then who has the power? Those in charge of the Church. The over-emphasis on sin and substitutionary atonement is about guilt and control, not grace and certainly is no consistent with every other aspect of the Incarnation.

Jesus died because he pissed off the wrong (or right) people. But that doesn't mean that his death doesn't have some larger meanings as well. Think of modern day martyrs- it's the same thing: MLK, Bonhoeffer, Romero, etc. They all died because they pissed people off, and they continued their mission despite the death threats. But yet, their steadfastness to their purpose and God amplified their message even more loudly and allows their deaths to be more than sad stories about murder committed by evil people.

This doesn't diminish the idea of Jesus' death as an atoning sacrifice, but sin offering does not define what the cross was about. There are many understandings of what happened on Good Friday- and that's the beauty of metaphor and parable (which Jesus himself used all the time, so why shouldn't we say that his death can have a range of meanings as well?).
On one hand you are saying atonement is at least present as a legitimate (if less significant) aspect of the interpretation of the meaning of the Cross, yet on the other hand you're asking why a loving God would require a blood atonement at all. Which sounds to me like you are calling the need for atonement simultaneously legitimate and illegitimate. Have I misunderstood you?
 
Thanks for the super-childish retaliatory negreg, Wrangor. Very Christian of you, like many of your posts in this thread.

Haha. I always give back. If you disagree with me just respond. Don't negrep. Don't take it so seriously.
 
On one hand you are saying atonement is at least present as a legitimate (if less significant) aspect of the interpretation of the meaning of the Cross, yet on the other hand you're asking why a loving God would require a blood atonement at all. Which sounds to me like you are calling the need for atonement simultaneously legitimate and illegitimate. Have I misunderstood you?

Somewhat. First of all, I never said that I struggle with why a "loving" God would demand blood atonement. For one, I've read the OT and understand the context. Secondly, I'm not going to make weak arguments based on sentimentality. Rather, I was wondering why the Creator of the Universe is bound by customs of the Ancient Near East when it comes to atonement theology.

But my point is that atonement, even seeing Jesus as the final lamb to be sacrificed to God for a sin sacrifice, is a legitimate and Biblical interpretation of the cross. But, at the same time, I'm saying that the need for a blood sacrifice is not the reason why Jesus died on the cross. Jesus died because he pissed people off and he was unwilling to relent from his radical message. That was the cause. The effects were many, and one is atonement.
 
5 Hail Marys and your sins will be forgiven.

Are moonlighting at the local Catholic Church?

I've always thought celibate priests who listen to everyone else's sex life every week in confessional are logically time bombs waiting to explode.

On the other hand Jews keep all of our sins to ourselves until Yom Kippur, say we're sorry, fast, have a nosh to end the fast and are good for another year.

Maybe Catholics should adopt Yom Kippur and drop celibacy.
 
Nah, but Catholics aren't the only ones who do the Sacrament of Confession or do acts of contrition.
 
I did not know that.

My buddy's bro is getting close to retiring. If you speak Spanish, there might be really tough Episcopalian gig open in a couple of years. Your church would be in Acapulco. Cliff diving would be optional.
 
I did not know that.

My buddy's bro is getting close to retiring. If you speak Spanish, there might be really tough Episcopalian gig open in a couple of years. Your church would be in Acapulco. Cliff diving would be optional.

Yup- we do Confession. The saying is "none must, some should, all may."

I do speak Spanish, but not really interested in another move.
 
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