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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

I mean at the end of the day, even if Collins voted against Kavanaugh, they would've eventually gotten someone on the Court who would still vote down Roe.
 
Alrighty, since nowhere near enough people will actually vote on this issue, we're about to get GOP majorities across the board. Trump's nomination is essentially guaranteed, and the bump he'll get from this plus the groundwork now in place to complicate voting will land the 2024 back in the Supreme Court, so Trump wins. The national abortion ban follows immediately, with a number of states kicking off anti-contraception laws. That'll legit start getting people riled up, so we'll need a war.

So who are we going to war with in 2025? Obviously won't be Russia... Gotta be Iran. But hey the economy will be blazing again so it's all good.
 
BarcaDeac said:
I mean at the end of the day, even if Collins voted against Kavanaugh, they would've eventually gotten someone on the Court who would still vote down Roe.
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Its more about how everyone kept saying this will happen, and she said no it wont. How everyone over and over again said no this will really happen, and she saying I don't believe you and here is an hour speech why I am right.

Just her ability to be so wrong on a historic scale. She is Pro-life woman and was the 50th and deciding vote on the issue. I don't think she should get a pass just because, someone else would have gotten on instead.
 
TimmyClutch said:
Its more about how everyone kept saying this will happen, and she said no it wont. How everyone over and over again said no this will really happen, and she saying I don't believe you and here is an hour speech why I am right.

Just her ability to be so wrong on a historic scale. She is Pro-life woman and was the 50th and deciding vote on the issue. I don't think she should get a pass just because, someone else would have gotten on instead.
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Cant trust women on women's issues.
 
BiffTannen said:
Cant trust women on women's issues.
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The obvious problem with this analysis is that the Supreme Court has identified plenty of “unenumerated rights” that lack deep roots in American history. Most recently, the court established the right of same-sex couples to be intimate (2003’s Lawrence v. Texas) and get married (2015’s Obergefell v. Hodges). Alito dismissed both decisions in harsh terms, mocking their “appeals to a broader right to autonomy” as a slippery slope. The “high level of generality” in their reasoning, he wrote, could “license fundamental rights to illicit drug use, prostitution, and the like.” It is difficult to square this opprobrium toward Lawrence and Obergefell with Alito’s later assurance that his decision “should not be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.” This unreasoned disclaimer is not worth much on the heels of 62 pages shredding dozens of precedents over a half-century.
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https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/05/supreme-court-draft-abortion-leak-roe-overturned-explained.html

But ya, I am sure they will stop here. I believe them.
 
 
Wrangor said:
I changed it. Don't visit here any more, but with the news it reminded me of this thread, and after reading the harshness of my tone, wanted to offer my apologies not for the position, but for the abruptness with which I communicated it. It gets pretty ugly over here at times, and I was certainly a part of that. Not going to comment on the recent leak / proceedings. I know that won't be productive. Hope that all of you are well.
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IOW I’ll happily enjoy the sausage but I don’t want to have to acknowledge and defend all the despicable tricks, lies, overreach and Donald Trump that my party mashed into the grinder to make it.
 
DCDeac said:
Alrighty, since nowhere near enough people will actually vote on this issue, we're about to get GOP majorities across the board. Trump's nomination is essentially guaranteed, and the bump he'll get from this plus the groundwork now in place to complicate voting will land the 2024 back in the Supreme Court, so Trump wins. The national abortion ban follows immediately, with a number of states kicking off anti-contraception laws. That'll legit start getting people riled up, so we'll need a war.

So who are we going to war with in 2025? Obviously won't be Russia... Gotta be Iran. But hey the economy will be blazing again so it's all good.
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So for those of us who don't care much about abortion one way or the other, you are saying the gold is to stock up for the forthcoming underground condom trade? I'm down. Weed is legal but Trojans are outlawed. As usual, thanks Obama!
 
HoosierDeac said:
True/False questions:

1. In a perfect world there would be no abortions
2. I am against abortion, but if my daughter got pregnant at 16 and it was going to ruin her life, I'd be totally for it
3. It makes sense that up to a designated time, it should be legal, but one second after that it shouldn't be legal
4. I couldn't care less, it doesn't really impact me and don't understand why people get so upset, we're just a speck of sand in an endless beach of nothingness anyway so why get worked up about all this shit just chill out and enjoy your life
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Well, if you're a woman living in one of the many red (and even some purple) states that will outlaw abortion almost immediately following this decision, and you want an abortion, it certainly makes sense why they're going to be very, very upset by this. And not only will these states outlaw abortion, in many cases they'll include even in cases of rape or incest or the mother's life being in danger in the law. And they'll not only outlaw abortion, but they'll criminalize it like they're doing in Texas. So yeah, it is going to affect lots of people and they are going to be upset, and with good reason.
 
HoosierDeac said:
True/False questions:

1. In a perfect world there would be no abortions
2. I am against abortion, but if my daughter got pregnant at 16 and it was going to ruin her life, I'd be totally for it
3. It makes sense that up to a designated time, it should be legal, but one second after that it shouldn't be legal
4. I couldn't care less, it doesn't really impact me and don't understand why people get so upset, we're just a speck of sand in an endless beach of nothingness anyway so why get worked up about all this shit just chill out and enjoy your life
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I missed this earlier, but here are my responses:

1) I'm gonna go with False, but I guess it depends on what you mean by "perfect." But even if you could design a system where pregnancies were 100% preventable, I'd still argue that a woman has a right to changer her mind after initially choosing to get preggers.

2) False. I am for abortions. If my kid got pregnant at any age and wanted an abortion I'd help them get it. If they were 16, I'd try to convince them to get one, but ultimately it should be her choice.

3) Trueish, I think that a ban somewhere in the 22-25 week range is a reasonable compromise since independent viability minimally starts around then. But who pays for all the premature birth medical care when a woman decides at 26 weeks she can't handle a baby?

4) False. We should all want the freedom to make these kinds of private choices without the government dictating our freedom.
 
06deacon said:
IOW I’ll happily enjoy the sausage but I don’t want to have to acknowledge and defend all the despicable tricks, lies, overreach and Donald Trump that my party mashed into the grinder to make it.
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Yeah, fuck Wrangor. That dude is fake as hell.
 
avalon said:
I kinda suspect this is why it was leaked. Get the media focused on the media-side of the story, soften the impact.
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Whoever leaked this draft opinion took a giant risk with regard to their own personal career and future. They did not do it to soften the impact. They did it because they are hoping one of two things: either that the opinion changes between that draft and when the final is published, or because they are opposed to the draft opinion becoming watered down and want to keep the pressure on other justices to sign on to this version. I cannot think of any other reason for taking such unprecedented action, and it's absolutely not so that CNN focuses on the leak and not the substance.
 
TenaciousKory said:
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This was one of the better threads I saw on Twitter explaining why a leak from the conservative side makes a lot more sense. Wonder if Moscow Mitch will be as eager for prosecution (of what crime, I have no idea) when it comes to light that it was one of Alito’s (or any of the 5 votes) clerks…
 
wakelaw13 said:
Whoever leaked this draft opinion took a giant risk with regard to their own personal career and future. They did not do it to soften the impact. They did it because they are hoping one of two things: either that the opinion changes between that draft and when the final is published, or because they are opposed to the draft opinion becoming watered down and want to keep the pressure on other justices to sign on to this version. I cannot think of any other reason for taking such unprecedented action, and it's absolutely not so that CNN focuses on the leak and not the substance.
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It was Clarence Thomas.
 
LOL that you lawyers think these conservative justices have any shame and care about propriety whatsoever. Alito prob leaked it himself to pressure the other justices to stay on his side.
 
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