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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

Highland Deac said:
Well of course. If this sweeping decision takes effect - and it certainly seems like it will - then conservatives are really going to be feeling their oats, and everything is on the table. Overturning gay marriage, interracial marriage, other landmark progressive rulings, and federalizing anti-abortion laws will all be on their agenda. There is no limit to what they'll push to do. The only real question is if they will pay any price at the polls for doing so. If Roe is overturned this summer and the Republicans still sweep to victory in this year's elections, why wouldn't conservatives keep pushing the envelope in the culture wars? What price will they have paid for doing so?
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Pretty much.
 
Highland Deac said:
Well of course. If this sweeping decision takes effect - and it certainly seems like it will - then conservatives are really going to be feeling their oats, and everything is on the table. Overturning gay marriage, interracial marriage, other landmark progressive rulings, and federalizing anti-abortion laws will all be on their agenda. There is no limit to what they'll push to do. The only real question is if they will pay any price at the polls for doing so. If Roe is overturned this summer and the Republicans still sweep to victory in this year's elections, why wouldn't conservatives keep pushing the envelope in the culture wars? What price will they have paid for doing so?
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I always wanted to know what it was like to live in the 70s and before.
 
plama said:
They'll go after the ones that are good politically, and won't touch the ones that aren't.
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All they have to do to make something “good politically” is get Tucker to do a week of shows on it.
 
plama said:
They'll go after the ones that are good politically, and won't touch the ones that aren't.
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Since when do Republicans care about doing what is "good politically?" They're amassing power to enforce their will on others. Now Republicans won't flat out reveal Brown, because that's "racist." But they'll allow states to determine the extent to which public schools can be segregated, so heavily gerrymandered Republican states will legally resegregate public schools which they've been doing this whole time anyway, but they can do it easier.

Liquid Karma said:
I always wanted to know what it was like to live in the 70s and before.
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LK, do you regret giving me shit 10 years ago or so when I started saying Republicans only cared about power? Here we are. You were a pretty ardent centrist convinced that anyone who didn't engage in both sides logic was going too far in one direction.
 
Was I wrong about the long game being a power grab? Yes.

Do I regret my centrism? Not a bit.
 
PhDeac said:
Since when do Republicans care about doing what is "good politically?" They're amassing power to enforce their will on others. Now Republicans won't flat out reveal Brown, because that's "racist." But they'll allow states to determine the extent to which public schools can be segregated, so heavily gerrymandered Republican states will legally resegregate public schools which they've been doing this whole time anyway, but they can do it easier.
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They care about winning. They always do what's good politically. You guys care about what wins a message board argument consisting of 90% democrats. They're not banning interracial marriage and segregating schools. That's not going to win them votes long term. But Roe vs Wade doesn't hurt them much in the swing states, and locks them in votes for life no matter how crazy they get.

We're in this position with Roe vs Wade and losing the country to fascism solely because dems lost their minds and cared more about the optics of nominating a woman over nominating an OWG. The average guy is a little put off getting inundated constantly with fitbit ads of dudes pole dancing and the thought of defunding the police. Y'all were about 3 decades too early.....
 
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So pro-fascism and ending Roe is good politics?

What optics are you talking about?
 
PhDeac said:
So pro-fascism and ending Roe is good politics?

What optics are you talking about?
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I think Republicans are producing kids at like 40% higher rate than democrats last I checked and they've come to the conclusion that radicalizing them helps. My facebook feed from growing up in middle america suggests it might not be a bad strategy. Transgenders make up what, .3% of the population? Why are Dems blowing their whole political capital trying to lock up that vote on a Florida bill targeting elementary kids that was only put forth to cost democrats votes. Florida is literally our most important swing state and you're just taking every bait and blowing it. Greater than 50% of any population is going to think we shouldn't be transitioning people before 3rd grade.

We're fighting for the future of actual democracy on this planet. I get that you think police brutality is the most important issue that we face, but it really isn't. Generally speaking if you aren't pawning off fake twenties in your spare time while high on fentanyl your odds of death by cop are nil. Hard not to look back and not realize the Floyd protests cost us the Senate and a chance to legislate the right to choose.
 
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Of course the GOP turning fascist is the Democratic Party’s fault.
 
Newsmax host suggests that our newest Supreme Court member, Ketanji Brown Jackson, leaked the draft of the Roe decision to the public - despite the fact that she's not actually on the Supreme Court yet and has no staff. The host suggested that her staff has already been hired. "She would be my first suspect when it comes to the leak because Ketanji Brown Jackson is a radical left-wing activist, more radical than any other justice in the history of the Supreme Court,” he continued. “I believe she is capable of undermining the court this way.” It surprises no one here, of course, but to call these media sites "news" is a total farce at this point - they simply have no connection to reality.

 
plama said:
They care about winning. They always do what's good politically. You guys care about what wins a message board argument consisting of 90% democrats. They're not banning interracial marriage and segregating schools. That's not going to win them votes long term. But Roe vs Wade doesn't hurt them much in the swing states, and locks them in votes for life no matter how crazy they get.

We're in this position with Roe vs Wade and losing the country to fascism solely because dems lost their minds and cared more about the optics of nominating a woman over nominating an OWG. The average guy is a little put off getting inundated constantly with fitbit ads of dudes pole dancing and the thought of defunding the police. Y'all were about 3 decades too early.....
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Segregating schools absolutely can be made politically favorable in the near future-all they have to do is to claim that forcing your white son to learn next to a Black kid constitutes critical race theory. Outright banning interracial marriage seems harder (at this point), but they sure can make it easier for others to discriminate-wasn't there some principal ins Houston (i think?) who was harassed over the CRT hysterics in part because there were instagram pictures with his white wife?
 
 
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Republicans win because it’s unfortunately easier and sadly effective to gin up and play to largely fantastical fears instead of understanding and caring to address actual problems. And so caring most about power, truth, reality and good be damned…yielded a party ripe for takeover by an inveterate con man and a collection of passionate lunatics…and poised to rule in Russian style “democracy”.

That’s not a strategy Democrats need to emulate, IMO.

However, Democrats do need to figure out how to effectively counter the Republican narrative.
 
PhDeac said:
LK, do you regret giving me shit 10 years ago or so when I started saying Republicans only cared about power? Here we are. You were a pretty ardent centrist convinced that anyone who didn't engage in both sides logic was going too far in one direction.
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I remember the days when Ph was a centrist/Republican and religion swayed his politics.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
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Even if they could, it’s doubtful the conservative donks on the SC would uphold it against the inevitable challenges.


Still, it seems reasonable to make the effort and force everyone to be on the record…??
 
Maybe I'm naive, but I feel like Brown, Loving and Obergefell have a much stronger position due to the 14th amendment.
 
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