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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

WFcatamount22 said:
Think about all the shitheads we are going to have to participate in society with who would have been better served as an aborted baby.

Republicans are not thinking this one out
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BiffTannen said:
This.

On the other hand, it really pays dividends to the prison industrial complex.
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Sadly, there’s a good bit of truth to this.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
so you're against all vaccines?
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I am not against anything. I am for individual choice. Anyone should get whatever they want to bear the consequences of.

There are only two logically consistent ways to approach this.

If you are (1) pro abortion choice and pro personal choice on covid restrictions (like me); or (2) anti-abortion and anti-Covid-choice (aka mandates), then either one of those positions makes logical sense. I might disagree with #2, but I can respect the position.

If you are (3) pro abortion choice and anti-covid-choice (aka mandates); or (4) anti-abortion and pro-covid-choice, then you are a fucking idiot and the world would be better off had you been aborted.

Unfortunately, it seems like most of society falls into 3 or 4, with the majority of this board filling the cup on 3.
 
Other people bear the consequences of not getting vaccines. Vaccines are public health. Abortions are private health that has social consequences.
 
Wait…so the only salient aspect worthy of consideration is “choice”…regardless of other considerations?

Doesn’t matter if we’re considering pregnancy vs cancer treatment vs highly contagious deadly infections?

Yeah, that’s “logic”.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I am not against anything. I am for individual choice. Anyone should get whatever they want to bear the consequences of.

There are only two logically consistent ways to approach this.

If you are (1) pro abortion choice and pro personal choice on covid restrictions (like me); or (2) anti-abortion and anti-Covid-choice (aka mandates), then either one of those positions makes logical sense. I might disagree with #2, but I can respect the position.

If you are (3) pro abortion choice and anti-covid-choice (aka mandates); or (4) anti-abortion and pro-covid-choice, then you are a fucking idiot and the world would be better off had you been aborted.

Unfortunately, it seems like most of society falls into 3 or 4, with the majority of this board filling the cup on 3.
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Man, at this point I'd rather a beer with you over any other poster. You fascinate me.
 
Learning more about abortion over the last few days has convinced me that the pro-choice side has been awful at promoting the truth about abortion. And it's emblematic of other culture wars that left continues to lose. The right tells lies and ardently fights against abortion, CRT, vaccines, whatever based on those lies. The left responds by just fighting against the right's fight without specifically defining what they're fighting for. So you get people who see the back and forth fighting on the right's terms and think "wow, the left is fighting for the choice to kill babies" or "the left is fighting against parents' rights to make sure their children aren't indoctrinated."

For example, I didn't know how few abortions happen mid-second trimester on and almost all are to save the life of the mother. You don't see those facts out there. And pro-choice advocates aren't out there framing the argument which allows the right to exaggerate it. It's important when fighting for the margins, the 1-2%, to make it clear that's who you're fighting for instead of letting the opponent exaggerate the numbers to generate more fear.
 
PhDeac said:
Other people bear the consequences of not getting vaccines. Vaccines are public health. Abortions are private health that has social consequences.
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Abortion does have social consequences. Forcing women to have babies that they don't want or can't financially support puts a burden on society.
 
"Abortions are private health that has social consequences."
"Abortion does have social consequences."

Um yeah.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I am not against anything. I am for individual choice. Anyone should get whatever they want to bear the consequences of.

There are only two logically consistent ways to approach this.

If you are (1) pro abortion choice and pro personal choice on covid restrictions (like me); or (2) anti-abortion and anti-Covid-choice (aka mandates), then either one of those positions makes logical sense. I might disagree with #2, but I can respect the position.

If you are (3) pro abortion choice and anti-covid-choice (aka mandates); or (4) anti-abortion and pro-covid-choice, then you are a fucking idiot and the world would be better off had you been aborted.

Unfortunately, it seems like most of society falls into 3 or 4, with the majority of this board filling the cup on 3.
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The federal vaccine mandates for private employers had a choice: employees either get vaccinated or show a negative test once per week to your employer. See two options, thus a choice.
 
PhDeac said:
Learning more about abortion over the last few days has convinced me that the pro-choice side has been awful at promoting the truth about abortion. And it's emblematic of other culture wars that left continues to lose. The right tells lies and ardently fights against abortion, CRT, vaccines, whatever based on those lies. The left responds by just fighting against the right's fight without specifically defining what they're fighting for. So you get people who see the back and forth fighting on the right's terms and think "wow, the left is fighting for the choice to kill babies" or "the left is fighting against parents' rights to make sure their children aren't indoctrinated."

For example, I didn't know how few abortions happen mid-second trimester on and almost all are to save the life of the mother. You don't see those facts out there. And pro-choice advocates aren't out there framing the argument which allows the right to exaggerate it. It's important when fighting for the margins, the 1-2%, to make it clear that's who you're fighting for instead of letting the opponent exaggerate the numbers to generate more fear.
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Of course…oversimplified, misleading, or downright dishonest narratives meant to inflame passion are easier to propagate for profit and power.

And Republican leadership decided some time ago that’s all that really matters.
 
PhDeac said:
Learning more about abortion over the last few days has convinced me that the pro-choice side has been awful at promoting the truth about abortion. And it's emblematic of other culture wars that left continues to lose. The right tells lies and ardently fights against abortion, CRT, vaccines, whatever based on those lies. The left responds by just fighting against the right's fight without specifically defining what they're fighting for. So you get people who see the back and forth fighting on the right's terms and think "wow, the left is fighting for the choice to kill babies" or "the left is fighting against parents' rights to make sure their children aren't indoctrinated."

For example, I didn't know how few abortions happen mid-second trimester on and almost all are to save the life of the mother. You don't see those facts out there. And pro-choice advocates aren't out there framing the argument which allows the right to exaggerate it. It's important when fighting for the margins, the 1-2%, to make it clear that's who you're fighting for instead of letting the opponent exaggerate the numbers to generate more fear.
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this has been the problem with the left for decades.
 
warak said:
this has been the problem with the left for decades.
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Oh definitely. I didn't realize how bad the problem was on the pro-choice side.
 
Should be their CHOICE.

Or yours…or somebody’s…?

Man, this stuff is confusing.
 
I don’t get the feeling 2&2 is putting a lot of thought into this. He just can’t let go of the Covid fight so he’s going to link it to every topic forever however he can.
 
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