Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

[BarcaDeac]

I don’t get the feeling 2&2 is putting a lot of thought into this. He just can’t let go of the Covid fight so he’s going to link it to every topic forever however he can.

is the overturning of Roe just one big milkwich?

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

Other people bear the consequences of not getting vaccines. Vaccines are public health. Abortions are private health that has social consequences.

Another person doesn't bear the consequence of an abortion besides the mother? I'm pro choice but I can easily still acknowledge that another person is now dead because of it.

Would you rather be aborted, or not be aborted and get a Covid cough? One is far more serious than the other if you are the afflicted "victim" of the policy choice.

 

[06deacon]

Still with “Covid cough” two and a half years later? Just get therapy already.

 

[mako1331]

Another person doesn't bear the consequence of an abortion besides the mother? I'm pro choice but I can easily still acknowledge that another person is now dead because of it.

Would you rather be aborted, or not be aborted and get a Covid cough? One is far more serious than the other if you are the afflicted "victim" of the policy choice.

 

[Kory]

imo there is literally no way for a you to be aborted because the existence of a you develops long after birth.

iot if I was aborted I would never have known and wouldn't be able to retroactively judge the decision - not good/bad, just null.

any other way of understanding the subject is rhetorical.

 

[wakegrrl]

Here is the framing ALL pro-abortion advocates should be using around the third trimester BS.

https://twitter.com/DeLoach_NC/status/1521335189028409345?s=20&t=gQEJUA2rpJ6iI0iaPcQV6Q

 

[Highland Deac]

I don’t get the feeling 2&2 is putting a lot of thought into this. He just can’t let go of the Covid fight so he’s going to link it to every topic forever however he can.

To be fair, it's not just him. Now that the pandemic is winding down and in its last stages I've read lots of conservatives who are rewriting history to argue that masking mandates and quarantines never worked and should never have been implemented in the first place, and that conservatives were right in all of their arguments made during the pandemic - on masking, vaccines, ivermectin, lockdowns, everything. And I'm sure a very large chunk of the public will believe it.

 

[PhDeac]

Of course that’s what we expected conservatives to do once things winded down going back two years ago. There were think pieces that said if we do the right thing conservatives will claim it was an overreaction and didn’t work but we have to anyway.

 

[Sirdeacsalot]

To be fair, it's not just him. Now that the pandemic is winding down and in its last stages I've read lots of conservatives who are rewriting history to argue that masking mandates and quarantines never worked and should never have been implemented in the first place, and that conservatives were right in all of their arguments made during the pandemic - on masking, vaccines, ivermectin, lockdowns, everything. And I'm sure a very large chunk of the public will believe it.

So instead of 1 million people dead from covid we would have had 3 million.

 

[Deacfreak07]

Learning more about abortion over the last few days has convinced me that the pro-choice side has been awful at promoting the truth about abortion. And it's emblematic of other culture wars that left continues to lose. The right tells lies and ardently fights against abortion, CRT, vaccines, whatever based on those lies. The left responds by just fighting against the right's fight without specifically defining what they're fighting for. So you get people who see the back and forth fighting on the right's terms and think "wow, the left is fighting for the choice to kill babies" or "the left is fighting against parents' rights to make sure their children aren't indoctrinated."

For example, I didn't know how few abortions happen mid-second trimester on and almost all are to save the life of the mother. You don't see those facts out there. And pro-choice advocates aren't out there framing the argument which allows the right to exaggerate it. It's important when fighting for the margins, the 1-2%, to make it clear that's who you're fighting for instead of letting the opponent exaggerate the numbers to generate more fear.

Yet the pro-choice argument resonates with a majority of Americans and majorities in most states. Let's not pretend this is some legislative achievement here for the GOP. We know politically how we got here. I agree with you that the messaging is flawed. I would offer that there are some pretty deep implications of how women are listened to (or not) and how awful our sex education systems have been and continue to be.

 

[DeacsPop]

Gorillas at the zoo fascinate me, but they need to be separated from society.

My laugh for the day......so far.

 

[birdman]

Here is the framing ALL pro-abortion advocates should be using around the third trimester BS.

https://twitter.com/DeLoach_NC/status/1521335189028409345?s=20&t=gQEJUA2rpJ6iI0iaPcQV6Q

Yeah, this is brilliant.

Before I was born my mom had a still birth. It was supposed to be her second son. Last fetal heart beat was detected around 34 weeks, but the laws at the time meant she could not “abort” the dead fetus. At full term they could induce labor, so she had to carry around a dead fetus for three weeks until they were permitted to hormonally induce labor at 37 weeks. She still, at 77 years old, carries that trauma. She had a name picked out and had already had a baby shower. She asked the Catholic Church to give her baby a funeral and they refused, but she had him buried at the family plot and has a head stone. But yeah, justice Alito knows what’s best.

 

[deaconson]

What is really fantastic is the overlap of people carrying "Bans off our Bodies" signs with those who, just a few months ago, were all about mask mandates and vax cards for entry so nobody gets the sniffles.

Followed closely by the "No Uterus - No Opinion" crowd overlap with the "No Uterus but Be A Woman if You Want" crowd.

And for the record, the opposite is equally as amusing. It just further shows that 99% of people are fucking idiots.

Speaking of leading the dumb dumb charge.

 

[Deacfreak07]

Learning more about abortion over the last few days has convinced me that the pro-choice side has been awful at promoting the truth about abortion. And it's emblematic of other culture wars that left continues to lose. The right tells lies and ardently fights against abortion, CRT, vaccines, whatever based on those lies. The left responds by just fighting against the right's fight without specifically defining what they're fighting for. So you get people who see the back and forth fighting on the right's terms and think "wow, the left is fighting for the choice to kill babies" or "the left is fighting against parents' rights to make sure their children aren't indoctrinated."

For example, I didn't know how few abortions happen mid-second trimester on and almost all are to save the life of the mother. You don't see those facts out there. And pro-choice advocates aren't out there framing the argument which allows the right to exaggerate it. It's important when fighting for the margins, the 1-2%, to make it clear that's who you're fighting for instead of letting the opponent exaggerate the numbers to generate more fear.

Yeah, this is brilliant.

Before I was born my mom had a still birth. It was supposed to be her second son. Last fetal heart beat was detected around 34 weeks, but the laws at the time meant she could not “abort” the dead fetus. At full term they could induce labor, so she had to carry around a dead fetus for three weeks until they were permitted to hormonally induce labor at 37 weeks. She still, at 77 years old, carries that trauma. She had a name picked out and had already had a baby shower. She asked the Catholic Church to give her baby a funeral and they refused, but she had him buried at the family plot and has a head stone. But yeah, justice Alito knows what’s best.

That's horrific.

I'm a big Mayor Pete fan, but we need more folks like your mom sharing her story and we (especially us menfolk) need to shut the hell up and listen to them. Your mom's story isn't isolated nor is it new.

 

[birdman]

That's horrific.

I'm a big Mayor Pete fan, but we need more folks like your mom sharing her story and we (especially us menfolk) need to shut the hell up and listen to them. Your mom's story isn't isolated nor is it new.

Yeah, it’s horrific. But that is where we are headed in places like Alabama and Louisiana.

 

[DeacsPop]

Yeah, this is brilliant.

Before I was born my mom had a still birth. It was supposed to be her second son. Last fetal heart beat was detected around 34 weeks, but the laws at the time meant she could not “abort” the dead fetus. At full term they could induce labor, so she had to carry around a dead fetus for three weeks until they were permitted to hormonally induce labor at 37 weeks. She still, at 77 years old, carries that trauma. She had a name picked out and had already had a baby shower. She asked the Catholic Church to give her baby a funeral and they refused, but she had him buried at the family plot and has a head stone. But yeah, justice Alito knows what’s best.

Wow, that is horrific. Hard for me to believe that those who are anti-abortion side don't realize that stories like this will only become more common place if Roe is overturned. Do they really believe in this day and age they will prevent the vast amount of women who want abortions from getting them? So absurd. And there's another reason why I now longer identify as a Catholic. Sacramental SOB's.

 

[Deacfreak07]

Learning more about abortion over the last few days has convinced me that the pro-choice side has been awful at promoting the truth about abortion. And it's emblematic of other culture wars that left continues to lose. The right tells lies and ardently fights against abortion, CRT, vaccines, whatever based on those lies. The left responds by just fighting against the right's fight without specifically defining what they're fighting for. So you get people who see the back and forth fighting on the right's terms and think "wow, the left is fighting for the choice to kill babies" or "the left is fighting against parents' rights to make sure their children aren't indoctrinated."

For example, I didn't know how few abortions happen mid-second trimester on and almost all are to save the life of the mother. You don't see those facts out there. And pro-choice advocates aren't out there framing the argument which allows the right to exaggerate it. It's important when fighting for the margins, the 1-2%, to make it clear that's who you're fighting for instead of letting the opponent exaggerate the numbers to generate more fear.

Wow, that is horrific. Hard for me to believe that those who are anti-abortion side don't realize that stories like this will only become more common place if Roe is overturned. Do they really believe in this day and age they will prevent the vast amount of women who want abortions from getting them? So absurd. And there's another reason why I now longer identify as a Catholic. Sacramental SOB's.

Folks who are true believers would likely argue that their deity of their choice will find a way.

 

[Biff Tannen]

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

imo there is literally no way for a you to be aborted because the existence of a you develops long after birth.

iot if I was aborted I would never have known and wouldn't be able to retroactively judge the decision - not good/bad, just null.

any other way of understanding the subject is rhetorical.

So then do you have a problem with the killing of the you at 2 days old, if the existence of said you still has not developed?

The Dems just need to make the argument transparent and it is much easier to justify. "You all did not care about people dying from Covid because you were inconvenienced getting a shot. We don't care about fetuses dying because the mother will be inconvenienced by having a kid. Either way it is their own choice and deal with the results, but it is the same convenience over life sentiment on both sides. Admit it, stfu, and move on."

It is much easier to stop dancing around the theological bullshit, admit the reality of your position, and deal with it despite the internal morality flaws you are trying to fight.

 

[deaconson]

The federal vaccine mandates for private employers had a choice: employees either get vaccinated or show a negative test once per week to your employer. See two options, thus a choice.

3 - find a new job