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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

The Recount
Sen. Sanders (I-VT) on abortion and COVID: "I get very tired of hearing the hypocrisy from the extreme right wing ..."
Wed, May 11, 2022, 11:33 AM
Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) addressed the Senate on Wednesday in support of the Women’s Health Protection Act. Democrats are working to force a vote on the bill in the wake of the leaked Supreme Court draft opinion signaling the Court would overturn Roe v. Wade, the 1973 landmark case establishing a woman’s constitutional right to have an abortion. WHPA passed the House in 2021 but failed in the Senate in February. As the legislation requires 60 votes to pass the filibuster, it will likely fail again.

In his remarks, Senator Sanders pointed out the hypocrisy of the extreme right who are against WHPA yet constantly appeal to get the government off their backs. “During the Covid crisis, how many times have we heard, ‘the government must not force us to wear a mask…must not force us to have a vaccine. We have the right to do what we want with our bodies.’”

Sanders reiterated how tired he is of this hypocrisy and challenged the right-wingers. “If you want to get the government off of the backs of the American people, understand that it is women who control their own bodies, not politicians,” he said.
 
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Rafi said:
IVF does not necessarily involve the destruction of fertilized eggs. One option is to implant all the fertilized eggs, and another option is to keep the fertilized eggs frozen indefinitely.
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That assumes Republicans are going to allow people to freeze eggs.
 
[h=1]Ben Franklin Put an Abortion Recipe in His Math Textbook[/h] [h=2]To colonial Americans, termination was as normal as the ABCs and 123s.[/h]https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/05/ben-franklin-american-instructor-textbook-abortion-recipe.html

The year was 1748, the place was Philadelphia, and the book was The Instructor, a popular British manual for everything from arithmetic to letter-writing to caring for horses’ hooves. Benjamin Franklin had set himself to adapting it for the American colonies.
Though Franklin already had a long and successful career by this point, he needed to find a way to convince colonial book-buyers—who for the most part didn’t even formally study arithmetic—that his version of George Fisher’s textbook was worth the investment. Franklin made all sorts of changes throughout the book, from place names to inserting colonial histories, but he made one really big change: adding John Tennent’s The Poor Planter’s Physician to the end. Tennent was a Virginia doctor whose medical pamphlet had first appeared in 1734.* By appending it to The Instructor (replacing a treatise on farriery) Franklin hoped to distinguish the book from its London ancestor. Franklin advertised that his edition was “the whole better adapted to these American Colonies, than any other book of the like kind.” In the preface he goes on to specifically mention his swapping out of sections, insisting that “in the British Edition of this Book, there were many Things of little or no Use in these Parts of the World: In this Edition those Things are omitted, and in their Room many other Matters inserted, more immediately useful to us Americans.” One of those useful “Matters” was a how-to on at-home abortion, made available to anyone who wanted a book that could teach the ABCs and 123s.
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DeSantis would have banned Ben Franklin's math textbook.
 
WakeForestRanger said:
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What's he going to do if they don't comply - send the OK National Guard into sovereign Native American reservations to force them to stop? I'm sure that would go over well. These people just love threatening and bullying minority groups and talking tough.
 
Highland Deac said:
What's he going to do if they don't comply - send the OK National Guard into sovereign Native American reservations to force them to stop? I'm sure that would go over well. These people just love threatening and bullying minority groups and talking tough.
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Why wouldn’t they? It would have support from Oklahomans and by and large Americans could care less about Native American sovereignty. Either way, this is just more justification for white violence against Native Americans.

I fully support reservations adding women’s health services to casinos.
 
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Sirdeacsalot said:
The Recount
Sen. Sanders (I-VT) on abortion and COVID: "I get very tired of hearing the hypocrisy from the extreme right wing ..."
Wed, May 11, 2022, 11:33 AM
Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) addressed the Senate on Wednesday in support of the Women’s Health Protection Act. Democrats are working to force a vote on the bill in the wake of the leaked Supreme Court draft opinion signaling the Court would overturn Roe v. Wade, the 1973 landmark case establishing a woman’s constitutional right to have an abortion. WHPA passed the House in 2021 but failed in the Senate in February. As the legislation requires 60 votes to pass the filibuster, it will likely fail again.

In his remarks, Senator Sanders pointed out the hypocrisy of the extreme right who are against WHPA yet constantly appeal to get the government off their backs. “During the Covid crisis, how many times have we heard, ‘the government must not force us to wear a mask…must not force us to have a vaccine. We have the right to do what we want with our bodies.’”

Sanders reiterated how tired he is of this hypocrisy and challenged the right-wingers. “If you want to get the government off of the backs of the American people, understand that it is women who control their own bodies, not politicians,” he said.
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At the same time Pelosi and Clyborn were campaigning for a anti-abortion Democrat in Texas.

It’s pretty clear who’s good and bad.
 
I hope Bernie realizes the Republicans “pro-choice” mask and vaccine argument was a troll to point out liberal “hypocrisy.” Calling them hypocritical is falling for the joke.
 
BirdinBama said:
wakegrrl, you are doing a very courageous thing in volunteering to be a clinic escort. You've got me thinking about it myself!
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100% agreed, you’re awesome Wakegrrl. You’ve inspired me to volunteer as well. I’ve got a little free time these days, happy to help. This is beyond fucked up.
 
PhDeac said:
I hope Bernie realizes the Republicans “pro-choice” mask and vaccine argument was a troll to point out liberal “hypocrisy.” Calling them hypocritical is falling for the joke.
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PH is time to realize that your centrist capitalist heroes are not only incompetent, they’re awful people.
 
A landmark study tracks the lasting effect of having an abortion — or being denied one


NPR piece, contains a link to the study.


… The idea for the Turnaway Study emerged from a 2007 Supreme Court abortion case, Gonzales v. Carhart. In the majority opinion upholding a ban on a specific procedure used rarely in later abortions, Justice Anthony Kennedy speculated that abortions led to poor mental health. "While we find no reliable data to measure the phenomenon, it seems unexceptionable to conclude some women come to regret their choice to abort the infant life they once created and sustained," he wrote. "Severe depression and loss of esteem can follow."

Kennedy's speculation — and admitted lack of evidence — captured Foster's attention, "because you can't make policy based on assumptions of what seems reasonable without talking to a representative sample of people who actually wanted an abortion," she said. The Turnaway Study fact-checked the justice's guess, finding that not having a wanted abortion was more likely to lead to the mental health outcomes he'd described than having one.…
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Conservatives have no interest in making parenthood easier so obviously having an unwanted kid is tougher for mental health than not having kids when you don’t want kids.

BillBrasky said:
PH is time to realize that your centrist capitalist heroes are not only incompetent, they’re awful people.
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There are no heroes in politics. You’re just picking people you hope can best protect your interests from fascists. If you’re looking for political heroes and you’re not disappointed, you have a problem.
 
PhDeac said:
Conservatives have no interest in making parenthood easier so obviously having an unwanted kid is tougher for mental health than not having kids when you don’t want kids.
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Except that conservatives have emphasized the opposite argument for decades.


Now there’s some comparative data. Not that evidence matters equally to everyone.
 
PhDeac said:
Conservatives have no interest in making parenthood easier so obviously having an unwanted kid is tougher for mental health than not having kids when you don’t want kids.



There are no heroes in politics. You’re just picking people you hope can best protect your interests from fascists. If you’re looking for political heroes and you’re not disappointed, you have a problem.
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This mentality is why we’re here. Politics shouldn’t just be about playing defense against reactionaries. That’s how you get fascism, when it appears to be the only alternative to the status quo. A status quo of income inequality that makes the 1890’s look reasonable.

The centrist capitalist machine will always pick fascism over socialism, and that’s what happening right now. It’s time to hold up a mirror my friend.
 
So say Roe is overturned and states like FL and TX outlaw abortion:

1. Do you think large corporations will boycott those states?

2. Do you think centrist Dems will refuse donations from corporations and oligarchs who don’t boycott?
 
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