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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I encounter them, I just don't think their position is winnable. Couching it as "medical care" is a bullshit excuse. Medical care is let me go have my broken arm set or some cholesterol medication. Help me kill this fetus is no more medical care than me stabbing you with a knife. If a pregnant woman is attacked and the fetus is killed, it is a crime against the fetus that I think everyone agrees with. If the pregnant woman kills the fetus of her own volition, it is medical care? That does not fly.

I am pro-choice, I'm not disagreeing with you on the woman's right or the outcome. But you need to call it for what it is, as too many people see through the bullshit. The woman's convenience is valued over the life of the fetus. That's it, and that is okay. But the only way to win the argument is to admit that, not try to disguise it as something else like "medical care". Until you admit that and find a way to get anti-abortion people to agree with it for whatever reason, the argument and current situation is not going anywhere.
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The late-term abortions Republicans harp on an on harp (or at least used to before moving forward against any abortion) are almost always medical procedures to protect the life of the mother.
 
How the fuck is expelling a foreign body from a uterus not medical care? You, and people like you, are not going to be allowed to dictate what a woman does with her own body - and that includes a pregnancy *which is part of her body*. You want to know why it’s criminal for someone else to kill a woman’s fetus? Because it’s hers! It’s her blood and nutrients. It’s her body until it’s viable and detached from her.
 
“Abortion proponents have to be honest and just say that women should be allowed to kill their babies out of convenience” get the fuck out of here.
 
BiffTannen said:
It does if you care about other people….
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Fer damn sure.

Anyone acting like a million plus deaths from a contagious illness is no big deal is either stupid or woefully callous.

And of course abortion is medical care…for people.

It’s appropriate to recognize gestational forms of human life as…human life. And important to understand the difference between possessing the rights of a person under the law and…not. That’s the somewhat sticky but necessary and rational distinction, IMO.

Roe used some approximation of fetal viability to disallow or allow (depending upon gestational age) states to restrict access to abortion. Today conservatives are often arguing essentially that a fertilized egg should be considered not merely the beginning of human life but a person with legal protections. That’s fairly a extreme legal position, IMO.
 
BTW, if you're able to get an abortion because you've decided that's the best thing to do in your situation, you don't have to honestly declare whether or not it was for rape or incest, so I would bet those numbers are WAY underreported.
 
What fetal rights do anti-abortion folks recognize aside from being born, the point at which human rights typically start?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I encounter them, I just don't think their position is winnable. Couching it as "medical care" is a bullshit excuse. Medical care is let me go have my broken arm set or some cholesterol medication. Help me kill this fetus is no more medical care than me stabbing you with a knife. If a pregnant woman is attacked and the fetus is killed, it is a crime against the fetus that I think everyone agrees with. If the pregnant woman kills the fetus of her own volition, it is medical care? That does not fly.

I am pro-choice, I'm not disagreeing with you on the woman's right or the outcome. But you need to call it for what it is, as too many people see through the bullshit. The woman's convenience is valued over the life of the fetus. That's it, and that is okay. But the only way to win the argument is to admit that, not try to disguise it as something else like "medical care". Until you admit that and find a way to get anti-abortion people to agree with it for whatever reason, the argument and current situation is not going anywhere.
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ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages are bullshit excuses?
 
Women who aren’t pregnant are being taken off and denied medications that could cause an unplanned pregnancy to miscarry.
 
PhDeac said:
The late-term abortions Republicans harp on an on harp (or at least used to before moving forward against any abortion) are almost always medical procedures to protect the life of the mother.
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...and they are less common than rape and incest caused abortions.
 
PhDeac said:
The late-term abortions Republicans harp on an on harp (or at least used to before moving forward against any abortion) are almost always medical procedures to protect the life of the mother.
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BeachBumDeac said:
ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages are bullshit excuses?
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Agreed that those are more medical procedures. But again, they do not account for 95% of abortions. You are both on the margins again, which is why the overall argument is losing ground nationally. And advances in viability #science are obviously not your friend here.

You need to be able to address the vast majority of abortions which are "I got knocked up and want to voluntarily kill the fetus because I don't want a kid." But until you can come up with a non-bullshit reason why convenience should outweigh life, the right to choose abortion is not coming back.

Maybe tie it to the second amendment. Due to its lethal potential, having mifepristone and misoprostol in your system is exercising your right to bear arms.
 
It is true that 70% of abortions occur in the first trimester, with only 1.3% occurring after the 21st week. But that isn't really the point. If you need a D&C in week 24, you should be able to get it.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
the vast majority of abortions which are "I got knocked up and want to voluntarily kill the fetus because I don't want a kid." But until you can come up with a non-bullshit reason why convenience should outweigh life
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No. I don’t know who you believe you represent, but you don’t dictate terms, and you don’t have jack shit to do with legislation. Get fucked.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
No. I don’t know who you believe you represent, but you don’t dictate terms, and you don’t have jack shit to do with legislation. Get fucked.
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Dude, I'm on your side and am simply telling you why the right to choose is not coming back unless there is a drastic shift in the strategy. You can tell me to get fucked all you want and then stupidly wonder why our position keeps losing.
 
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