Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

[Fishbelt Deac]

You know, for all the talk about the "sanctity" of life, Uncle Thomas sure doesn't lose any sleep over approving the execution of some of my clients.

This x1000, plus no one threatens to take away communion. Funny how hypocrisy works!

 

[Les Grossman]

I'm guessing these numbers are closer to 50/50 in the places that elect Republicans. Their political apparatus does not need to represent the other side in order to succeed.

This. Democrats and the left are obsessed with national polling. They mean nothing. What matters is State polling. I assure you all the red states who have abortion bans will stay that way. There’s not going to be a big outcry from the citizens of Alabama on this issue.

 

[Louis Gossett Jr]

Even if there was a huge outcry from the citizens of the state it wouldn’t mean anything and is why its bullshit to say let states decided. With extreme gerrymandering, state voting laws etc… and no oversight from the federal government states are free to maintain a minority rule forever and impose their backwards bullshit views onto everyone else. Just vote! (in a system that is completely rigged against you so that no matter what you do it doesn’t matter)

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

Nope. You don’t need to address that. Let women have sex and then have abortions. It’s good for them, good for you and good for society. The vast majority of elective abortions are young women or financially unstable women for whom having a baby as a result of a momentary lapse of vigilance could be a life altering event. There is no need. Just let them correct their mistake a few weeks later with out shame or long term consequence and definitely don’t call it “bullshit”. Especially since men get to walk away pretty easily with our consequence.

Saying that we have to address this or explain it is putting the dialog on gop terms and we don’t have to do that. I want the gop to address why a momentary lapse of vigilance has to result in a life altering society draining consequence. Let’s put those people on the defensive.

Yes, you do. Because the right to choose no longer exists. So if you want to get it back, then you need to successfully argue why it should exist. Otherwise, the only place it doesn't have to be addressed is in this circle jerk of an echo chamber. And as we have just seen, Rape! Incest! Medical necessity! is not enough. Or just get used to the right to choose being gone for good.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I assure you all the red states who have abortion bans will stay that way. There’s not going to be a big outcry from the citizens of Alabama on this issue.

So if you want to get it back, then you need to successfully argue why it should exist. …Medical necessity! is not enough. Or just get used to the right to choose being gone for good.

What you all desperately need to understand is that this is never going to be a states rights issue that is decided state by state. Eventually the pendulum will swing back toward federalism, and the conservative states will bow to federal rule, or we will have another civil war. That’s what the situation is. We aren’t convincing Alabama or Mississippi of jack shit. It’s not going to happen, it’s naive and degrading to suggest what you all suggesting.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

These people call abortion murder and are criminalizing women for miscarriages, what kind of idiot believes those same people are suggestible to rhetorical compromise. Grow up. This isn’t school house rock.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

The Civil Rights Act required decades of demonstrations and ultimately the violent martyrdom of the most prominent civil rights leaders causing nationwide violent riots in dozens of major cities. It wasn’t about compromising and voting harder. It never was. It’s about mobilizing people to action - general strikes.

 

[Highland Deac]

I'm not at all sure that this is ultimately going to be left up to the states. Many pro-lifers have said they won't be satisfied until they get a federal ban, or they get a case before the Court in which the five justices basically say that a fetus is a human being from conception and abortion is banned nationwide. They feel that they've got the momentum now, I don't think that many of them will settle for leaving it up to the states, especially as women who are able travel to blue states where it's still legal.

 

[PhDeac]

The Civil Rights Act required decades of demonstrations and ultimately the violent martyrdom of the most prominent civil rights leaders causing nationwide violent riots in dozens of major cities. It wasn’t about compromising and voting harder. It never was. It’s about mobilizing people to action - general strikes.

And a Congress willing to pass the Civil Rights Act and a President willing to sign it. Otherwise, it's just a lot of dead and imprisoned activists.

(This is where the unsympathetic society comes into play)

 

[wakegrrl]

I'm not at all sure that this is ultimately going to be left up to the states. Many pro-lifers have said they won't be satisfied until they get a federal ban, or they get a case before the Court in which the five justices basically say that a fetus is a human being from conception and abortion is banned nationwide. They feel that they've got the momentum now, I don't think that many of them will settle for leaving it up to the states, especially as women who are able travel to blue states where it's still legal.

This. If/when the Pubs take Congress back, welcome to a federal ban. They won't be willing to live with states having the decision power. And SCOTUS won't do a thing because "the people have spoken."

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

And a Congress willing to pass the Civil Rights Act and a President willing to sign it. Otherwise, it's just a lot of dead and imprisoned activists.

(This is where the unsympathetic society comes into play)

“Well, these cases of civil rights being abused are extremely rare and most white people don’t know a black person that has been denied their rights. What Black people have to do is stop bullshitting and admit that they are only voting to get welfare. They have to convince Republicans voters that welfare is a good reason for Black people to vote.”

 

[wakephan09]

What you all desperately need to understand is that this is never going to be a states rights issue that is decided state by state. Eventually the pendulum will swing back toward federalism, and the conservative states will bow to federal rule, or we will have another civil war.

Hmm, sounds like you should revisit the "federalism" Wikipedia page

 

[deaconson]

The Civil Rights Act required decades of demonstrations and ultimately the violent martyrdom of the most prominent civil rights leaders causing nationwide violent riots in dozens of major cities. It wasn’t about compromising and voting harder. It never was. It’s about mobilizing people to action - general strikes.

yeah but we just lived through a similar situation with mobilizing and extended periods of political demonstrations (with small pockets of rioting). republicans blamed antifa for causing riots all over the country and wiped their hands of it. it was brazen then and that is only ramping up.

 

[PhDeac]

yeah but we just lived through a similar situation with mobilizing and extended periods of political demonstrations (with small pockets of rioting). republicans blamed antifa for causing riots all over the country and wiped their hands of it. it was brazen then and that is only ramping up.

I'll go even further. I think our political system is largely immune to political demonstrations up to the point where those demonstrations get media attention and influential financial backing. Both are much harder to do in our current media/political climate compared to the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

 

[wakegrrl]

I'll go even further. I think our political system is largely immune to political demonstrations up to the point where those demonstrations get media attention and influential financial backing. Both are much harder to do in our current media/political climate compared to the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

Whereas the actual demonstrations are much easier to do, logistically, thanks to social media - and I think that also weighs in to their perceived "usefulness."

 

[Milhouse]

if anyone wonders why people hate new jersey they should just read 2&2’s posts

 

[Kory]

I'll go even further. I think our political system is largely immune to political demonstrations up to the point where those demonstrations get media attention and influential financial backing. Both are much harder to do in our current media/political climate compared to the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

this post makes me sad

 

[PhDeac]

this post makes me sad

Because I'm wrong or because I'm right?

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Hmm, sounds like you should revisit the "federalism" Wikipedia page

I was honestly referring to the original most literal definition of the term. What term should I have used? Centralism? I don’t see that used often.

 

[wakephan09]

Unitary? antifederalism? Centralism? Idk.

But you can't just use "federalism" to mean the states are subordinated to the national government. Because it literally means the opposite of that