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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

The holding that women have the constitutional right to choose (qualified as it was) isn’t coming back until the SC is differently constituted.


Pretty sure novel or better arguments isn’t the barrier.
 
Nearly every poll and survey that has been taken on this issue shows that over 60% of Americans support abortion rights in the first trimester, and well over 70% (and in many cases 80% or better) support abortion rights in the cases of rape, incest, or the mother's life or health being in danger. And yet Republicans across the country are rapidly moving to ban all abortions in all circumstances, and make it a crime to even help a woman get an abortion in their states. It seems pretty clear that they don't care that their position is a clear minority or that this Supreme Court decision is highly unpopular across the country, so I don't know what arguments are going to convince anti-abortion activists to change or even moderate their views.
 
ConnorEl said:
The holding that women have the constitutional right to choose (qualified as it was) isn’t coming back until the SC is differently constituted.


Pretty sure novel or better arguments isn’t the barrier.
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Sure, but motivating people to vote on a state-by-state basis is the most important thing right now. For a lot of voters that requires basic education of what's entailed, rather than an up or down vote on murdering babies.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Dude, I'm on your side
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We’re not even on the same planet. The topic of reproductive rights starts with bodily autonomy and family planning. Referring to that as “convenience” and stating that women should have to defend these choices of “convenience” is insanity.
 
feel free to tell me more about your abortion expertise.

is terminating a pregnancy easy? it something that a woman carries with her for life? has she been trying to get pregnant? unexpected? most abortions are for women who already have kids. can they afford healthcare or food for another mouth to feed? will that child have a good life?

all women are not the same of course but its never easy. for anyone. calling it "a convenience" is incredibly insulting to the women that carry the burden of these decisions before and after. of course you continue to prove your selfish male centric view of the world.
 
First of all, bodily autonomy shouldn't be a "Constitutional right" because it should be a "God-given right" or a natural right.

Second, abortion and related reproductive care should be a private matter between a person, a couple, or a family and their doctor. Because abortion involves trauma, emotional pain, and difficult decisions mostly experienced by women, we rarely see these stories in the public eye which allows politicians to fill the void with bluster about "baby killers" and other nonsense.

I hope we'd be in a better place on this issue if women's rights and abortion rights groups fought this male-dominated public discourse with personal stories, but I don't really know. We live in an unsympathetic society.


Highland Deac said:
Nearly every poll and survey that has been taken on this issue shows that over 60% of Americans support abortion rights in the first trimester, and well over 70% (and in many cases 80% or better) support abortion rights in the cases of rape, incest, or the mother's life or health being in danger. And yet Republicans across the country are rapidly moving to ban all abortions in all circumstances, and make it a crime to even help a woman get an abortion in their states. It seems pretty clear that they don't care that their position is a clear minority or that this Supreme Court decision is highly unpopular across the country, so I don't know what arguments are going to convince anti-abortion activists to change or even moderate their views.
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I'm guessing these numbers are closer to 50/50 in the places that elect Republicans. Their political apparatus does not need to represent the other side in order to succeed.
 
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Imagine women having to defend their own “convenience” to get an abortion when even still today young women are denied tubal litigations based on the premise that they “might regret it later”, or even more egregiously at many Catholic Hospitals many wives can’t get tubal litigations without their husbands approval.
 
patriarchical society is a more productive diagnosis but what do I know
 
TenaciousKory said:
patriarchical society is a more productive diagnosis but what do I know
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But plenty of patriarchal societies treat legal access to abortion as a private health matter.
 
disagree that its god given. call it a natural right if you want. that's fine. we re in the mess because of republican effectiveness of branding themselves as the party of evangelical christianity. evangelicals love to take orders and not know/understand shit. add their turbo charged grievance and "feelings" and here we are.
 
For those who believe in intersectionalism, reproductive rights are certainly a topic that check every discrimination box: race, class, gender, religion, age, health
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
You need to be able to address the vast majority of abortions which are "I got knocked up and want to voluntarily kill the fetus because I don't want a kid." But until you can come up with a non-bullshit reason why convenience should outweigh life, the right to choose abortion is not coming back.
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Nope. You don’t need to address that. Let women have sex and then have abortions. It’s good for them, good for you and good for society. The vast majority of elective abortions are young women or financially unstable women for whom having a baby as a result of a momentary lapse of vigilance could be a life altering event. There is no need. Just let them correct their mistake a few weeks later with out shame or long term consequence and definitely don’t call it “bullshit”. Especially since men get to walk away pretty easily with our consequence.

Saying that we have to address this or explain it is putting the dialog on gop terms and we don’t have to do that. I want the gop to address why a momentary lapse of vigilance has to result in a life altering society draining consequence. Let’s put those people on the defensive.
 
deaconson said:
disagree that its god given. call it a natural right if you want. that's fine. we re in the mess because of republican effectiveness of branding themselves as the party of evangelical christianity. evangelicals love to take orders and not know/understand shit. add their turbo charged grievance and "feelings" and here we are.
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To the extent that there is a god (there isn’t) there are act of god abortions all the time, we just call them miscarriages. Women reject pregnancies naturally, unconsciously all the time for physiological or genetic reasons. All medical abortion does is add mental health and financial health to list of reasons a woman’s body can reject a pregnancy.
 
birdman said:
To the extent that there is a god (there isn’t) there are act of god abortions all the time, we just call them miscarriages. Women reject pregnancies naturally, unconsciously all the time for physiological or genetic reasons. All medical abortion does is add mental health and financial health to list of reasons a woman’s body can reject a pregnancy.
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agreed.
 
You know, for all the talk about the "sanctity" of life, Uncle Thomas sure doesn't lose any sleep over approving the execution of some of my clients.
 
So I've taken a few days off social media for my mental health (like why some women decide to have an abortion) and as I'm catching up on this thread, I get to 2&2's latest diatribe about needing a rationale for abortion. Thanks to the rest of you for taking him out with the trash.
 
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