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Pure GOP hypocrisy

If it's a penny, the GOP has said the government cannot force you to buy anything. Thus it's unconstitutional,
 
I think you are missing some key parts of the constitutional argument. The GOP doesn't claim that driver's licenses are unconstitutional because you have to pay a fee and buy the tags.

This is a terrible law, but I'm not sure why you are trying to tie it in with healthcare reform.
 
Billy Mitchell said:
I think you are missing some key parts of the constitutional argument. The GOP doesn't claim that driver's licenses are unconstitutional because you have to pay a fee and buy the tags.

This is a terrible law, but I'm not sure why you are trying to tie it in with healthcare reform.
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Ditto on both paragraphs. Driver's licenses and abortions are voluntary. The law doesn't require me to have either. If I choose to have one, then the law may require me to pass certain tests and pay certain fees.
 
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Billy Mitchell said:
I think you are missing some key parts of the constitutional argument. The GOP doesn't claim that driver's licenses are unconstitutional because you have to pay a fee and buy the tags.

This is a terrible law, but I'm not sure why you are trying to tie it in with healthcare reform.
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It mandates that women buy a service they may not want. The government is mandating every woman who is thinking about an abortion must pay for something they haven't asked for.

It's exactly like the HC bill mandating you buy insurance.

The GOP goes way beyond what Obama does. They mandate the government enter a woman's body.
 
RJKarl said:
It mandates that women buy a service they may not want. The government is mandating every woman who is thinking about an abortion must pay for something they haven't asked for.

It's exactly like the HC bill mandating you buy insurance.

The GOP goes way beyond what Obama does. They mandate the government enter a woman's body.
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I almost want to pay for you to go to law school so you will quit posting shit like this.
 
Please explain how it's different for the government to mandate buying a medical procedure you don't want versus buying insurance.
 
RJKarl said:
Please explain how it's different for the government to mandate buying a medical procedure you don't want versus buying insurance.
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rj, because the government isn't mandating that all women have to get ultrasounds, but only those who choose to have an abortion. The ultrasound is a prerequisite for the procedure, not a universal mandate.
 
IamThunderbolt said:
rj, because the government isn't mandating that all women have to get ultrasounds, but only those who choose to have an abortion. The ultrasound is a prerequisite for the procedure, not a universal mandate.
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It's actually a more intrusive mandate. There is no money being paid by the government for abortions.

The woman is being forced to pay for something they don't want or need.

It is a mandate.

Although I disagree with your position, I understand it. I just don't understand how you can justify government mandating an intrusion into a woman's body that she doesn't want.

This is government sponsored physical abuse of women. since it can an intrusion of a sexual place, it's government sanctioned rape.
 
RJKarl said:
It's actually a more intrusive mandate. There is no money being paid by the government for abortions.

The woman is being forced to pay for something they don't want or need.

It is a mandate.

Although I disagree with your position, I understand it. I just don't understand how you can justify government mandating an intrusion into a woman's body that she doesn't want.

This is government sponsored physical abuse of women. since it can an intrusion of a sexual place, it's government sanctioned rape.
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You have a good argument about this being a bad law. Why take it to crazytown by calling it "government sanctioned rape"? Now no one can take this conversation seriously.
 
i really wasn't defending the position, as I think that national heathcare is a good thing, just showing how the two mandates are different.

I don't think that guilt as a motivator for decisions is ever a good call in any realm, but I also think all of this jockeying for inches around the abortion topic is silly. The whole topic resolves around one question - what is the nature of what is growing in a woman's womb? If it is a human, nothing can justify its termination. If it's not a human, the question is equally silly and do whatever you want.
 
OK, that may a bit too far, but isn't it too far for the right to call the contraception ma (which is already law in twenty-eight states) and attack on religion?

how about me being called a racist in negrep over and over? Is that going tooofar?
 
IamThunderbolt said:
i really wasn't defending the position, as I think that national heathcare is a good thing, just showing how the two mandates are different.

I don't think that guilt as a motivator for decisions is ever a good call in any realm, but I also think all of this jockeying for inches around the abortion topic is silly. The whole topic resolves around one question - what is the nature of what is growing in a woman's womb? If it is a human, nothing can justify its termination. If it's not a human, the question is equally silly and do whatever you want.
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The government forcing you to buy something is the government forcing you to buy something.
 
I think it's more similar to marriage in states with a blood test requirement.

If I want to get marriage (an elective event), I have to purchase a license that requires the withdrawal of blood

I don't disagree with you on the nature of the law in and of itself, just the direct correlation to a heath care mandate
 
RJKarl said:
The government forcing you to buy something is the government forcing you to buy something.
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No, not if you have the choice in whether you buy it. There are hundreds/thousands of examples of laws that force you to buy something IF you elect to do something else.

The law forcing you to buy auto insurance IF you get a driver's license is not the same as the law forcing you to buy medical insurance simply because you're a citizen of the U.S.

The law forcing you to pass a test and buy a real estate license IF you want to practice real estate is not the same as the law forcing you to buy medical insurance simply because you're a citizen of the U.S.

The law forcing you to to have an ultrasound (dumb law, by the way) IF you decide you want an abortion is not the same as the law forcing you to buy medical insurance simply because you're a citizen of the U.S.

Do you really not understand the difference? :confused:
 
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RJKarl said:
The government forcing you to buy something is the government forcing you to buy something.
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rj: first of all, I agree with you that these laws should not exist, but do you honestly not see the difference between the government mandating that you buy something just because you live in this country, versus the government mandating that you buy something, but only if you wish to take a certain action?
 
Kitchin, would I support mandating the purchase of blue shoes or a car? NO.

Health insurance is quite different. Due to our laws and business model everyone who does have insurance is paying for those who don't.

If a person gets sick or into an accident, they must be taken of by hospitals whether they can pay or not.

Many could afford insurance but don't buy it. In the end we pay for them. Demanding that they pay for themselves is perfectly legitimate.
 
RJKarl said:
Kitchin, would I support mandating the purchase of blue shoes or a car? NO.

Health insurance is quite different. Due to our laws and business model everyone who does have insurance is paying for those who don't.

If a person gets sick or into an accident, they must be taken of by hospitals whether they can pay or not.

Many could afford insurance but don't buy it. In the end we pay for them. Demanding that they pay for themselves is perfectly legitimate.
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At no point did this post have anything to do with the question at hand, i.e. the difference in constitutionality of requiring all citizens purchase health insurance vs. the constitutionality of requiring a woman to have a sonogram if she elects to have an abortion. Hell of an attempt at deflection though. 5 points!
 
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