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Republicans Shut Down the Federal Government Again & Suffer Humiliating Defeat

Junebug said:
I agree with your first point.

I disagree with your second point, although the disagreement is a matter of degree. I think that, for most people, smart financial decision making on important matters (house, car, entertainment (including phones, TV, etc), don’t have kids you can’t afford) leads to sustainable results. There are undoubetly a non-trivial number of people for whom this will not be sufficient.

I will admit to being uncertain as to best way to help this last group get ahead. Capitalism will always have winners and losers, but it is not a necessary feature of capitalism (at least the regulates sort) that some people simply can’t get ahead. Raising the minimum wage sounds great in the abstract, but raising wages without increasing productivity leads to inflation and higher unemployment. This presents a unique problem in our society, where health care is tied to employment.
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You were spending more on beer when you were living below the poverty line than someone today spends on an iPhone.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
You were spending more on beer when you were living below the poverty line than someone today spends on an iPhone.
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Yep. Not to mention a smartphone is much more necessary today than any cell phone was back in 2001. I didn’t have one back then either.
 
Junebug said:
A new iPhone X costs $1000. Just the phone. Not including usage.

Bud light costs less than $1 a can, including usage.

Dilly dilly.
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I pay $29 a month for my iPhone. That's less than a Bud Light a day.

iPhones and TVs aren't why people can't save money.
 
Air traffic control at La Guardia is loading up. This could impact 25% of the flights in the US. Right now, it's only averaging a 41 minute delay, but it is expected to grow.
 
I bought an Android for $35. Not per month, $35 period. The monthly bill is significantly cheaper than my landline was however many years ago I had one (15???)

The notion that a smart phone is some luxury in 2019 is preposterous. That doesn't even get into how they've actually become essential for daily life.
 
Adjusted for inflation, in the United States:

wages have been stagnant for almost 50 years

consumer goods are generally cheaper

important quality of life expenditures -- education, healthcare, childcare -- are generally much more expensive


our priorities are showing
 
Junebug said:
Give me a break. I’ve said previously the reasons people are in bad shape financially includes things like poor decisions with respect to housing, cars, decisions in connection with children, and, yes, technology. I know you hate what I post because I’m a mean old conservative, but stop focusing on the trees.
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You said having an iPhone was a poor financial decision. District pointed out that an iPhone cost less than a dollar a day.

 
People are concerned about air traffic controllers, but FBI, Coast Guard, Homeland and until this week, State Dept workers have all been doing their jobs without pay. These are the people who keep us safe. 800,000 Federal workers are going without pay for a month now, and I was shocked to learn only 70,000 of those live in DC. That is such a small number to the 3 million federal contractors who are out of work and wont receive any back pay as well. This is not just a Washington problem. My fiance and I are lucky ones, I was still receiving my paycheck this month while she wasn't and State is now going to pay employees for two weeks. We don't have kids or huge medical bills or a mortgage, but we do have student loans which add up to more than our rent every month. We know other couples who are both going without paychecks, who have already hit up the credit unions and their savings. Some of them have parents who can help them, but others don't. The scary thing is though, there is no end in site to this stupid stupid standoff. You can say its not a big deal because they will get back pay, but back pay doesn't help now when rent is due.

I don't care what party you are for, this is ridiculously stupid. The government is shutdown over a campaign promise, a political slogan, and people who don't make that much to begin with are working without pay are being punished. I would think everyone can agree a wall is not going to deter people from trying to come into the country, it will not significantly impact crime or the amount of drugs coming in. Facts are facts, you can state "Build a Wall and Crime will fall" all you want, but the issue is points of entry. Even Dems are saying something needs to be done on the border, but a wall wont fix it. Many Dems previously supported a wall, but wont pay for a Trump political victory.

This shutdown is going to have long term effects, not only economically, but also many smart and qualified people are not going to consider Federal employment anymore, just because it is too risky. If one party doesn't get their way, they will just shut down the government and people will not get paid again. The quality of government employees will go down, and then we will truly realize how screwed we are. If you think the Federal government is inefficient and poorly run now, just wait till the smart and qualified ones leave.

TL;DR this is all so stupid and needs to end.
 
Something tells me his wireless bill is less than $29/month.
 
Junebug said:
I can see it now: if Junebug had been Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins, Rchill would said “Pfft. Bruce Wayne didn’t *really* enter the criminal underworld.”

My relationship with my parents was complicated. I’m not going to go into it on a message board. Besides, you aren’t going to give credence to whatever I say, so why bother? You can have your opinion about my life, and I’ll have mine. I’m okay with that.

Minimum wage at the time was in the $5/hr range.
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FPL in 1998 was $8,050. Minimum wage was $5.15. So a 40 hour per week job at minimum wage puts you at a little less than 130% of the FPL (the same job today would put you at 120% FPL). For perspective, a family of 4 today would have to work a combined 90 hours per week to live that far above the poverty line.

1998-2001 was about the easiest time to be employed in American history. You had a high school diploma and perhaps even a college one. You are presumably a white male. Your deflection makes me think you were born and raised in a family that was at least one generation removed from living at the poverty line. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I dicked around after college too, but that doesn’t give me some special insight into what it’s like to be poor in America. Your stint as a painter while you figured out what you wanted to do with your life (a luxury most people in the world don’t have) doesn’t give you that insight either.
 
Junebug said:
Give me a break. I’ve said previously the reasons people are in bad shape financially includes things like poor decisions with respect to housing, cars, decisions in connection with children, and, yes, technology. I know you hate what I post because I’m a mean old conservative, but stop focusing on the trees.
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Yeah come on District. He mentioned Audis too. Don’t forget about all the poor people with Audis.
 
Republicans Shut Down the Federal Government Again

Junebug said:
Give me a break. I’ve said previously the reasons people are in bad shape financially includes things like poor decisions with respect to housing, cars, decisions in connection with children, and, yes, technology. I know you hate what I post because I’m a mean old conservative, but stop focusing on the trees.
Click to expand...

Please don’t confuse me pointing out your poor arguments with an attack on your political persuasion.

It’s a nonsense line of reasoning, regardless if you’re a conservative or a liberal.
 
Junebug said:
I agree with your first point.

I disagree with your second point, although the disagreement is a matter of degree. I think that, for most people, smart financial decision making on important matters (house, car, entertainment (including phones, TV, etc), don’t have kids you can’t afford) leads to sustainable results. There are undoubetly a non-trivial number of people for whom this will not be sufficient.

I will admit to being uncertain as to best way to help this last group get ahead. Capitalism will always have winners and losers, but it is not a necessary feature of capitalism (at least the regulates sort) that some people simply can’t get ahead. Raising the minimum wage sounds great in the abstract, but raising wages without increasing productivity leads to inflation and higher unemployment. This presents a unique problem in our society, where health care is tied to employment.
Click to expand...

If only there were a way to fix this . . .
 
TimmyClutch said:
People are concerned about air traffic controllers, but FBI, Coast Guard, Homeland and until this week, State Dept workers have all been doing their jobs without pay. These are the people who keep us safe. 800,000 Federal workers are going without pay for a month now, and I was shocked to learn only 70,000 of those live in DC. That is such a small number to the 3 million federal contractors who are out of work and wont receive any back pay as well. This is not just a Washington problem. My fiance and I are lucky ones, I was still receiving my paycheck this month while she wasn't and State is now going to pay employees for two weeks. We don't have kids or huge medical bills or a mortgage, but we do have student loans which add up to more than our rent every month. We know other couples who are both going without paychecks, who have already hit up the credit unions and their savings. Some of them have parents who can help them, but others don't. The scary thing is though, there is no end in site to this stupid stupid standoff. You can say its not a big deal because they will get back pay, but back pay doesn't help now when rent is due.

I don't care what party you are for, this is ridiculously stupid. The government is shutdown over a campaign promise, a political slogan, and people who don't make that much to begin with are working without pay are being punished. I would think everyone can agree a wall is not going to deter people from trying to come into the country, it will not significantly impact crime or the amount of drugs coming in. Facts are facts, you can state "Build a Wall and Crime will fall" all you want, but the issue is points of entry. Even Dems are saying something needs to be done on the border, but a wall wont fix it. Many Dems previously supported a wall, but wont pay for a Trump political victory.

This shutdown is going to have long term effects, not only economically, but also many smart and qualified people are not going to consider Federal employment anymore, just because it is too risky. If one party doesn't get their way, they will just shut down the government and people will not get paid again. The quality of government employees will go down, and then we will truly realize how screwed we are. If you think the Federal government is inefficient and poorly run now, just wait till the smart and qualified ones leave.

TL;DR this is all so stupid and needs to end.
Click to expand...

I don't know that everyone agrees? I am not sure HOW effective a wall would be but it makes logical sense to me that it would be a deterrent and would slow down the flow of people into the country. Anything that makes it more difficult will have some impact. Is it the most cost effective way of achieving that level of deterrence? I don't really know.
I agree points of legal entry are also a problem and need to be hardened with modern technology. Finally, I agree the shut-down is nuts and the aspect of it that pisses me off the most is the extreme politicization of this issue - and, really, all issues right now. As you point out, many democrats favored a wall in the past - but now that it is something Trump wants they are adamantly opposed. Many on the right are the same way. Whatever the issue, right is right and you shouldn't vote against something just because the opposition has proposed it.
 
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