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Republicans Shut Down the Federal Government Again & Suffer Humiliating Defeat

Scooter, in federal court, a former El Chapo lieutenant stated that the cartels didn't do what you and Trump are alleging is being done to smuggle drugs and people into the US. It's too dangerous and costly to be out in the open like that.

The only "polarization" is caused Trump's lies and radical supporters. Rational Republicans and Democrats understand the wall will have no impact on serious crime in the US. The wall is a purely political and racist concept.
 
Everyone should agree shutting down the government over the wall should be a non-starter. That’s why the plan to open the government and then discuss immigration reform should be the only plan.
 
Along those lines, there was a 98% voice vote to keep the government open before Rush and Coulter scared Trump and he changed the deal. There was zero "polarization" about keeping the government open.

Trump's cowardice and racism are the only "polarizations" here.
 
scooter84 said:
I don't know that everyone agrees? I am not sure HOW effective a wall would be but it makes logical sense to me that it would be a deterrent and would slow down the flow of people into the country. Anything that makes it more difficult will have some impact. Is it the most cost effective way of achieving that level of deterrence? I don't really know.
I agree points of legal entry are also a problem and need to be hardened with modern technology. Finally, I agree the shut-down is nuts and the aspect of it that pisses me off the most is the extreme politicization of this issue - and, really, all issues right now. As you point out, many democrats favored a wall in the past - but now that it is something Trump wants they are adamantly opposed. Many on the right are the same way. Whatever the issue, right is right and you shouldn't vote against something just because the opposition has proposed it.
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Some one who has walked 1000 miles from Honduras to Texas fleeing poverty, disease and drug gang violence is not going to turn back because of the 30 foot wall. It might slow them down for a few days but they won't give up.
 
Junebug said:
A new iPhone X costs $1000. Just the phone. Not including usage.

Bud light costs less than $1 a can, including usage.

Dilly dilly.
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I'm not usually the thread police and I've derailed my share of threads with irrelevant bird facts, but can you you just go a head and start a "Dumb poors are poor because they are dumb thread" or something?
 
Oh shit did Junebug go with the “I was broke in college” coupled with “I saved 400 a month on an 800 a month wage” argument to defend 40 years of horrible trickle up policies?

Dudes got a sack, I’ll give him that
 
RJKarl said:
Scooter, in federal court, a former El Chapo lieutenant stated that the cartels didn't do what you and Trump are alleging is being done to smuggle drugs and people into the US. It's too dangerous and costly to be out in the open like that.

The only "polarization" is caused Trump's lies and radical supporters. Rational Republicans and Democrats understand the wall will have no impact on serious crime in the US. The wall is a purely political and racist concept.
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This is part of the problem - both sides claim that only the other side is responsible for the deadlock, the polarization, whatever. That is a load of crap. Both sides are responsible for the over-politicization of everything.

And, I don't even understand the concept of the wall being "racist" - I have heard others make this claim, can you explain it to me?
 
scooter84 said:
This is part of the problem - both sides claim that only the other side is responsible for the deadlock, the polarization, whatever. That is a load of crap. Both sides are responsible for the over-politicization of everything.

And, I don't even understand the concept of the wall being "racist" - I have heard others make this claim, can you explain it to me?
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lolz
 
scooter84 said:
This is part of the problem - both sides claim that only the other side is responsible for the deadlock, the polarization, whatever. That is a load of crap. Both sides are responsible for the over-politicization of everything.

And, I don't even understand the concept of the wall being "racist" - I have heard others make this claim, can you explain it to me?
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The wall isn't stopping illegal immigrants who come in from Ireland that over stay their visas and work on the docks or in bars, it only stops the brown ones. If we are saying all illegal immigrants are the problem, the wall only focuses on a certain demographic of illegal immigrants.
 
scooter84 said:
This is part of the problem - both sides claim that only the other side is responsible for the deadlock, the polarization, whatever. That is a load of crap. Both sides are responsible for the over-politicization of everything.

And, I don't even understand the concept of the wall being "racist" - I have heard others make this claim, can you explain it to me?
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C'mon, scooter. Don't play. You're smarter than that. The US is a very large land mass. Why is the focus on the southern border as opposed to the East Coast, West Coast, and northern border?
 
TimmyClutch said:
The wall isn't stopping illegal immigrants who come in from Ireland that over stay their visas and work on the docks or in bars, it only stops the brown ones. If we are saying all illegal immigrants are the problem, the wall only focuses on a certain demographic of illegal immigrants.
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That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. You're talking about completely different problems - people coming into the country legally on a visa and then over-staying that visa versus people coming into the country illegally across a mostly-open border. I don't think the goal is to stop brown people from coming into the country because they are brown - the goal is to stop (or deter) people from entering the country illegally by an obviously easy route - by making it not quite so easy. Different solutions are needed to address the other immigration problems.
 
PhDeac said:
C'mon, scooter. Don't play. You're smarter than that. The US is a very large land mass. Why is the focus on the southern border as opposed to the East Coast, West Coast, and northern border?
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Me play dumb? I couldn't play any dumber than the statement you just made. You focus on the southern border because that is where the issue is - hundreds and hundred of miles of border with no physical barrier - much of it desolate and extremely difficult to patrol. I have never seen any data that indicates that the numbers of people sneaking into the country via water on the west or east coasts approaches those of people coming in over the southern border. Have you? Same for the northern border - as soon as people starting flooding into the country there like they do on the southern border, you let me know.
 
scooter84 said:
Me play dumb? I couldn't play any dumber than the statement you just made. You focus on the southern border because that is where the issue is - hundreds and hundred of miles of border with no physical barrier - much of it desolate and extremely difficult to patrol. I have never seen any data that indicates that the numbers of people sneaking into the country via water on the west or east coasts approaches those of people coming in over the southern border. Have you? Same for the northern border - as soon as people starting flooding into the country there like they do on the southern border, you let me know.
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FLOODING
 
This is good, though. I like understanding the arguments against improving the physical barriers on the southern border. I'm not really a strong advocate for 'the wall' - I think something should be done but I am not convinced that is the best solution.
I understand the arguments about it being expensive, not effective, and not cost-effective.
I don't understand the arguments that it is racist or immoral.
 
scooter84 said:
That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. You're talking about completely different problems - people coming into the country legally on a visa and then over-staying that visa versus people coming into the country illegally across a mostly-open border. I don't think the goal is to stop brown people from coming into the country because they are brown - the goal is to stop (or deter) people from entering the country illegally by an obviously easy route - by making it not quite so easy. Different solutions are needed to address the other immigration problems.
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But the only solution being offered is, Build the Wall and Crime will fall, this is the full scope of the President's immigration reform. There is no other solution being discussed that looks at deterring other people or other forms of entry, this is the only solution he is focusing on.

There is no push to create legislation that punishes american companies from hiring illegal immigrants.

He isn't trying to build a wall along the mostly open Canadian Border.
 
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scooter84 said:
That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. You're talking about completely different problems - people coming into the country legally on a visa and then over-staying that visa versus people coming into the country illegally across a mostly-open border. I don't think the goal is to stop brown people from coming into the country because they are brown - the goal is to stop (or deter) people from entering the country illegally by an obviously easy route - by making it not quite so easy. Different solutions are needed to address the other immigration problems.
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The MAJOR problem is overstaying visas.

Why won't you address the FACTS that drug importation and human trafficking will not be impacting by a wall? Even those involved in these businesses have testified, under oath that this is the case.

Trump is in an unashamed, unfettered, unrepentant racist. By supporting him in any way, you are de facto institutionalizing racism, religious bigotry and deny Americans who happen to be LGBTQ the same rights every other American enjoys.

Hate is the cornerstone of Trump's Administration.
 
We now know that ATC controllers hold the power in any future shutdowns. They can end them on Day 1.
 
Apparently, Trump is about to give a rose Garden speech about ending the shutdown while continuing to negotiate border security without any money up front for it.

Pelosi owns Trump's ass again.
 
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